Please get a clue!!

[Livingstone]

In no way do I intend to insult any one else's philosophy, but it is MY practice and philosophy that if I cannot properly meet the needs of a "pet" that I acquire by providing the best environment and healthcare, then I should probably not acquire that living thing. Vet care IS expensive, and if one cannot afford vet care, then they might want to re-think stewarding a pet, especially and exotic one.

Please, these are just my thoughts and feelings on the subject.

I am grateful for the information shared on this forum. There are many ideas from which to glean information .

What you have there is uncommon sense, pass that on if you can. .

In all seriousness, you would hope that your logic is something all people share, unfortunately its not, hence the 1000's of similar posts scattered about the forum.

I totally agree with your philosophy but we need to help the torts who's owners didn't know as much as they thought they did.

 

[-EJ]

Your reasoning is kind of ignorant considering most keepers are attracted to the animal at a shop or show and the response is impulsive.

In no way do I intend to insult any one else's philosophy, but it is MY practice and philosophy that if I cannot properly meet the needs of a "pet" that I acquire by providing the best environment and healthcare, then I should probably not acquire that living thing. Vet care IS expensive, and if one cannot afford vet care, then they might want to re-think stewarding a pet, especially and exotic one.

Please, these are just my thoughts and feelings on the subject.

I am grateful for the information shared on this forum. There are many ideas from which to glean information .

What you have there is uncommon sense, pass that on if you can. .

In all seriousness, you would hope that your logic is something all people share, unfortunately its not, hence the 1000's of similar posts scattered about the forum.

I totally agree with your philosophy but we need to help the torts who's owners didn't know as much as they thought they did.

 

[terryo]

I am writing this post because I'm tired of reading about everybodies "X" month old sulcata that has a soft shell and isn't eating. There is something wrong with being able to buy a baby animal that is at its most vulnerable when keepers are just starting to learn. Breeders should raise the price of these animals to prevent them from getting into the hands of people who dont have a clue about how to care for a reptile. It makes me sick that on some sites it even states the tortoises below a certain size dont have a guarantee for length of time they may or may not live, or that they are sold for scientific purposes... I can think of nothing scientific about dying from dehydration, poor diet, lack of proper lighting or proper care.

If you own a tortoise and intend to raise it from a baby then please for the sake of the animal get the correct setup, do your homework, and remember by the time you can tell a tortoise is sick... its probably too late.

We've all read the posts in sulcata central... User has NEWB status and there first post is... My tortoise is sick. For those people, your first post should have been 5 months earlier when you were researching how best to care for the animal, not as its knocking on deaths door.

It makes me sick to picture a tortoise the same size as mine, dying in a fake environment, under a humming flourescent light, gasping for breath with bubbles coming from its nose, as it waits for its internal organs to shut down. Please close your eyes and try to picture that, then look at your tortoise and think, what if it had gone to a home where the owner had no idea how to care for it?

Dont let your tortoise be the poster child for your idiocy. These animals are the most difficult to care for when they are young. The younger they are the harder they are to raise and the more care they require.

In the past two or more years of reading posts on different forums, I can see that there are many people who do research and do all the proper things for their tortoise hatchlings and they still get sick....could be they were sick when they got them, and as we all know they don't usually show signs of illness until it's almost too late. Then the person comes on the forums (any forums) asking for help. What is wrong with that? Most are willing to take their tortoise to vets and to do all the right things to get them better. Everyone has to start out somewhere. EVERYONE was once a "newbe"....I hate that word. So I still don't understand why they would be criticized, if they only want the best for their pet. In fact, I really don't understand this whole thread. Most people do research...or they wouldn't be on forums asking questions....

 

[CGKeith]

What is needed is more "sticky" threads or a FAQ section.

The questions that do get asked over and over could be addressed and put at the top of the appropriate section. Or a section of care sheets that would cover a good amount of basic info.

That could benefit the casual visitor as well.

 

[-EJ]

Yea... a sticky would work but that would lead to a sticky section of the forum.

The deal with the 'same old questions' being asked is that there are always new ideas and developments that pop up in those same old questions.

As to the OP... can you say troll.

What is needed is more "sticky" threads or a FAQ section.

The questions that do get asked over and over could be addressed and put at the top of the appropriate section. Or a section of care sheets that would cover a good amount of basic info.

That could benefit the casual visitor as well.

 

[Livingstone]

What is needed is more "sticky" threads or a FAQ section.

The questions that do get asked over and over could be addressed and put at the top of the appropriate section. Or a section of care sheets that would cover a good amount of basic info.

That could benefit the casual visitor as well.

You are missing the point of constant feedback, how many times have you read something in a FAQ that has superceded to a more effective or efficient way of doing something. I work in the auto industry and constantly see revisions and updates of the same principle. If you create a FAQ section you foster the status quo and you will be facilitating the spread of what will become dated information.

 

[egyptiandan]

Keep wondering Ed I like it that way

Danny

 

[Livingstone]

Yea... a sticky would work but that would lead to a sticky section of the forum.

The deal with the 'same old questions' being asked is that there are always new ideas and developments that pop up in those same old questions.

As to the OP... can you say troll.

I appreciate your opinion, but it seems then that we share the same philosophy as far as information goes.

And yah if you want to waive the troll card go ahead,
new ideas are generally greeted with skepticism and resistance from the vanguard.

 

[Madkins007]

I understand that FAQs can become 'old and dead', if they are not maintained. One thing I think that could really help keepers in general is a set of FAQs that routinely get challenged and tweaked- peer-reviewed as it were.

I think that such a process can also help with the 'opinion' vs. 'traditional' vs. 'based on lots of experience' vs. 'research-driven' aspects we see on so many debatable topics- soaking springs to mind.

 

[Livingstone]

I believe that is exactly what a post is, an informal version of peer review.

 

[katesgoey]

I've read through all of this thread again....and I just don't get the OP point. One doesn't have to be a member to read these posts. I learned alot from this forum before I decided to join. I think if someone wants to post, they should be a member - we all had to do it and I just don't see what the problem is about requiring it. I get it that the OP is ticked off that some people buy tortoises before researching or some breeders sell them without providing the "right" info, but you just can't control everything and everyone in life, so we do the best we can...and forums like this are part of providing education. If you want to change how tortoises are purchased - that would have to be done outside of this forum anyway. Use this forum to start your campaign for change if you want, but why should the forum have to change its policy on posters? Besides, caretaking has changed over the years so who knows what we'll all learn down the road about issues in how we are keeping our tortoises today. Another besides, is the OP has changed points as the "debate" ensues so I just don't see the point. That's my 2 cents plus 2 cents more opinion anyway.

 

[terryo]

Sandy....I totally agree....great post!

 

[Livingstone]

My goal was not to discourage anybody from coming here to ask questions, just that would-be keepers should be here first before it becomes a life and death issue.

If anything I would think that the forum should have a means for new owners to post questions without becoming members, so that we can reach out and give help. Since time is a critical issue when young animals are sick it would make sense to facilitate those in need with useful answers, and if such an area existed we would all know where to go to give the right advise. Something like that would set this forum apart from the rest. That is truly where I was trying to take this.

 

[CGKeith]

Yea... a sticky would work but that would lead to a sticky section of the forum.

The deal with the 'same old questions' being asked is that there are always new ideas and developments that pop up in those same old questions.

As to the OP... can you say troll.

What is needed is more "sticky" threads or a FAQ section.

The questions that do get asked over and over could be addressed and put at the top of the appropriate section. Or a section of care sheets that would cover a good amount of basic info.

That could benefit the casual visitor as well.

Great, name calling. That will help get more new people to ask questions.

It is exactly that type of attitude that keeps me from asking questions, and I've been here a while.

Sure, there are lots of ideas about what works and what doesn't. And yes, we learn more all the time how to make better choices.

At least being able to get basic care information (without being belittled or being called names) might be what keeps an animal from dying.

 

[katesgoey]

My goal was not to discourage anybody from coming here to ask questions, just that would-be keepers should be here first before it becomes a life and death issue.

If anything I would think that the forum should have a means for new owners to post questions without becoming members, so that we can reach out and give help. Since time is a critical issue when young animals are sick it would make sense to facilitate those in need with useful answers, and if such an area existed we would all know where to go to give the right advise. Something like that would set this forum apart from the rest. That is truly where I was trying to take this.

I'm sorry, but unless one of us is a vet, we shouldn't be going that far....the best advice for someone with a sick tortoise where time is of the essence like that is that they get themselves and the tortoise to a vet ASAP. Maggie is working on a vet list which will then be accessible publicly, so that should take care of that concern. In the meantime, the "viewer" can already read up on the "latest" proper care techniques on the forum.

 

[-EJ]

I'm wondering if you are directing this at me... i'm thinking not.

I'm totally amazed at the acceptance of the OP. Either I'm misunderstanding his post or everyone else is.

My reference to 'troll' is that this post bares a striking resembalance to another post on a UK forum... which was definately trolling.

Stop and consider... the OP is belittling all those that have obtained a tortoise and are seeking a quick fix.

Please don't tell me that this list has turned into the same as the majority of the others.

Yea... a sticky would work but that would lead to a sticky section of the forum.

The deal with the 'same old questions' being asked is that there are always new ideas and developments that pop up in those same old questions.

As to the OP... can you say troll.

What is needed is more "sticky" threads or a FAQ section.

The questions that do get asked over and over could be addressed and put at the top of the appropriate section. Or a section of care sheets that would cover a good amount of basic info.

That could benefit the casual visitor as well.

Great, name calling. That will help get more new people to ask questions.

It is exactly that type of attitude that keeps me from asking questions, and I've been here a while.

Sure, there are lots of ideas about what works and what doesn't. And yes, we learn more all the time how to make better choices.

At least being able to get basic care information (without being belittled or being called names) might be what keeps an animal from dying.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

I personally think that rather then make joining and asking questions easier for the newbie, laws need to make it harder to buy a tortoise. Stop the impulse buy totally and make the whole process of buying a turtle or a tortoise harder...

 

[-EJ]

I'm not going to post my initial response... I would actually find it repuslive...

You're going to tell me the keeping of your first tortoise was well thought out and well prepared for...

I can't believe the thought line of this thread. Whoa...Tell me AH has not acquired this list... nahhh... couldn't be... I'd of been banned a long time ago.

Seriously... does anyone else see anything wrong with the OPs post... and more disturbing... the follow ups???????

I personally think that rather then make joining and asking questions easier for the newbie, laws need to make it harder to buy a tortoise. Stop the impulse buy totally and make the whole process of buying a turtle or a tortoise harder...

 

[terryo]

I think it started out that the OP was criticizing people for buying tortoises without doing research. I can understand that. What happened after that is confusing....NO AH is NOT here...This is a GREAT forun IMHO.

 

[-EJ]

The OP is trolling... nothing more. What is the value of his rant to any forum... apparently... a great deal considering the positive response... that is seriously sad.

I don't often do this...

This might be a good forum but that is one seriously stupid post for many reasons.

Note that the OP has not responded... about 3 or 4 am... there'll be a response.

I think it started out that the OP was criticizing people for buying tortoises without doing research. I can understand that. What happened after that is confusing....NO AH is NOT here...This is a GREAT forun IMHO.