Russian tortoise lighting hours?

[No1much]

Hi all ☺️

I got my Russian tortoise Cadwell about 5 weeks ago. When I got him he was quite dehydrated and lathargic. His urates were like crumbled chalk so I don't think he had great care when I got him. On top of that he was being bullied and bitten by his cage mate blink (my partners tortoise we got at the same time from the same cage in the shop) we separated as soon as we noticed within 2 days. Then I took him to the vet and she said his shell and bottom jaw were a little soft and he seemed run down and that he hadn't had access to decent uv growing up. He's about 14 months old. So basically he's had a rough start. I got a uv tube and he has a Mercury vapor bulb so his whole table is flooded with good uv. I got some uv detection cards and he has uv pretty much everywhere I also supplement with nutribal. His improvement since ( about a week) has been amazing. Hes more active, walks taller, basks more and looks "podgier". The only issue now is that hes lazy. He doesn't get out of bed until about 11-12 and goes back to bed about 5-6. So he's not getting alot of hours of uv per day. He does nap in the basking spot alot though. When he's not doing that he loves to climb and dig and knock his plants over.

So basically I have 2 questions
What times should I be turning the lights on and off.I go to work at 630 am is that too early?
Is it normal for Russians to actually sleep under the basking light ?

Basking temp 100, surrounding area 90, cool end 25 humidity usually 50-60 occasionally reaches 70.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

I'm hoping the 25 is really 75?

I run lights 14 hours a day. A few hours a day under the UV is good.

Sounds like you got things to help your tortoise along. You might consider a humid hide - a plastic box with a tortoise size hole, filled with slightly moist peat moss.

 

[No1much]

Haha thanks for the reply. Yeah sorry I forgot to convert. It's more like 76-77. I actually put a humid hide in a couple of days ago. He's spent a total of 10 mins in there since but I do soak him every day.

If I turn the lights on at say 630 but I don't have time to feed him at that hour in the morning so he wakes up and there's no food (apart from his plants which he rarely goes near anymore) do you think he'll get stressed by the fact there's no food until 10 am ? I'm worried he'll wake up notice there's no food and panic and eat soil or something haha

 

[Tom]

So basically I have 2 questions
What times should I be turning the lights on and off.I go to work at 630 am is that too early?
Is it normal for Russians to actually sleep under the basking light ?

I like the enclosure lights to come on and go off with the sun, unless I don't intend to hibernate the tortoise, in which case I keep the lights on for 13-14 hours. 6:30 on time is fine. Set the timer to turn them off according to your hibernation plans, or lack thereof.

Yes its normal for them to bask under the lights to warm up.

What type of UV tube did you get? Be careful. Too much can be more dangerous than not enough. They only need exposure to UV for an hours a couple of times a week for them to produce the correct amount of D3. Exposing them to high levels all day every day isn't natural, doesn't help, and can be detrimental. Also be aware the the MVB will cause pyramiding, and at least some MVBs stop producing UV after just 3 months, even though the bulb still lights up. Be sure the tortoise has several areas in its enclosure where it can escape the "sun".

Good for you for saving this guy and getting him hydrated.

 

[No1much]

Hey I got the exact uv that the vet recommended which was Arcadia 10% t8 tube. I got 3 uv cards which I placed in various places in the table to measure uv levels to make sure it wasn't too strong. The cards change various shades of purple depending on the levels and fall into 3 categories.They don't give specific readings but say 2 3rds of the table are covered with "low going into medium" levels. Under The mvb and directly under the tube are "medium" and the cold side which is also partially shaded are "low" uv. So although he gets uv throughout the table, there are hot spots and very low spots so he can move around depending on what he wants. My Mercury vapor bulb is the lower 100 watt one and the water bowl is partially under it to try and have a little humidity there too. I can also use the cards to ensure the lights are still working because I read that you won't necessarily know if the uv has gone.

When I first got him I was guilty of just going into the pet shop and buying whatever the guy said I needed which in hindsight wasn't the best move, but since then I've done a ton of reading and asked alot of (probably stupid) questions on here and in other places because I worry about the lil guy. I'll be taking him back to the vet early December for a follow-up to make sure his shell is showing improvement.

Do you think the uv coverage is too high and maybe I should have the tube on for a few hours per day? Or do you think it's low enough to leave on all day ?

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

depending on what foods you offer, you don't have to remove the old food until the new food is placed into the enclosure. I notice many times several different species seek the older/dryer food over the fresh food I just put in. As long as mold is not growing on it overnight, don't take the uneaten food out until you place fresh food in. If the tortoises are eating everything before the next day, increase the amount offered until a small amount is left.

 

[cptortoises]

I keep my tortoises lights on for about 12 hours. Both UV and Heat. They’re on a timer. I suggest you get a timer. You could set it to go on whenever you like and go off whenever you want, but, whatever floats your boat. Hope I could help. I am kind of an amateur in the hobby. I’ve had my Greek tortoise, George, for about 4 months, and my Hermann’s tortoise, Theo, for about 2 weeks. Again, hope I could help a bit. (I don’t know about Russian tortoises, but hopefully, again, I helped.)

 

[cptortoises]

depending on what foods you offer, you don't have to remove the old food until the new food is placed into the enclosure. I notice many times several different species seek the older/dryer food over the fresh food I just put in. As long as mold is not growing on it overnight, don't take the uneaten food out until you place fresh food in. If the tortoises are eating everything before the next day, increase the amount offered until a small amount is left.

Agreed. My tortoises tend to go after the dry food sometimes.

 

[Tom]

Hey I got the exact uv that the vet recommended which was Arcadia 10% t8 tube. I got 3 uv cards which I placed in various places in the table to measure uv levels to make sure it wasn't too strong. The cards change various shades of purple depending on the levels and fall into 3 categories.They don't give specific readings but say 2 3rds of the table are covered with "low going into medium" levels. Under The mvb and directly under the tube are "medium" and the cold side which is also partially shaded are "low" uv. So although he gets uv throughout the table, there are hot spots and very low spots so he can move around depending on what he wants. My Mercury vapor bulb is the lower 100 watt one and the water bowl is partially under it to try and have a little humidity there too. I can also use the cards to ensure the lights are still working because I read that you won't necessarily know if the uv has gone.

When I first got him I was guilty of just going into the pet shop and buying whatever the guy said I needed which in hindsight wasn't the best move, but since then I've done a ton of reading and asked alot of (probably stupid) questions on here and in other places because I worry about the lil guy. I'll be taking him back to the vet early December for a follow-up to make sure his shell is showing improvement.

Do you think the uv coverage is too high and maybe I should have the tube on for a few hours per day? Or do you think it's low enough to leave on all day ?

A few points to make to help you out. I learned these things the hard way over many years. I'll share it with you here so you don't have to. I encourage you to question any of this. You and anyone reading will learn more if you do.

• Most vets don't know much about tortoises, and most of them will recommend treatments that are at best unnecessary and useless, and at worst, harmful. Like "vitamin" injections for example. Calcium injections, Baytril injections and force feeding for more common examples. Just keep this in mind as the person tells you all about what they just read in the vet handbook in back and then holds out their hand to take your money. I know a few good reptile vets, but unless they keep their own tortoises, as the members here do, they simply won't know the things that an experienced tortoise keeper will know. There is no semester on tortoise care in vet school. I'm not knocking vets. I call many vets friends and frequently share meals and holidays with them. But they are just people and vet school teaches them almost nothing about tortoises.
• MVBs cause pyramiding. The low wattage ones do it too. Its has to do with the type of infra red waves they emit. It dries out the carapace and causes exactly what your tortoises carapace is showing. I'd switch to a lower wattage flood bulb and adjust the height to get the correct temperature under it. A warmer ambient during the day will encourage them to bask under the desiccating lamps a lot less.
• Ive heard of these UV cards before. I don't know enough about them to know if they are reliable or not. I'd have to do some experimenting with them next to a real UV meter in order for me to trust them. Take that to mean, I don't trust them. This is too important of a detail for me to trust such an unknown. I don't think you'll find anyone else on this whole forum that has used them and experimented with them. @Markw84 is very knowledgable in this area. Hopefully he'll see this "bat signal" and chime in with his insight. The spectrum of UV needed for our tortoises is relatively narrow. I suspect these cards are loosely measuring a much wider spectrum. I hope I'm wrong and that these are a cheap easy way for people to check and measure the UV over their tortoises, but I don't think I'm wrong.
• The Arcadia bulbs are an excellent product and make strong UV. What distance do you have it mounted from the tortoise?
• I prefer to run a strong UV source mid day, and no UV the rest of the day. This simulates the high UV spike that occurs daily outside. UV levels are very low in the early morning hours even in direct hot sun. Same in the evenings. Mid day levels are very high. And remember: If you can get the tortoise outside in a safe enclosure with some direct sun exposure 2 or 3 times a week, you don't need any indoor UV at all.

 

[No1much]

Wow some amazing and helpful replies. I'll definitely follow all this advice!

I give them a huge range of foods because as you can probably tell I over think everything. Over the week his diet consists of fresh stuff like lambs lettuce, violets and pansies (leaves and flowers) some chia. Small amounts of things like romaine, kale, Pak Choi, cress (spread out over the week). I also add dried leaves and flowers from Komodo like nettles, rose, dandelion, marigold among other things. I add this daily. I also give them a very small amount of pellets daily because my partners Russian quickly became addicted to them and would prefer them over the other foods so we limit them now. They also have various succulents and spider grass in the enclosures which they nibble occasionally. I also experiment with new things from the tortoise table site weekly. I also supplement with nutribal. They also have Komodo edible bedding which contains "botanical herbs and leaves".

My vet is a reptile vet who has 2 tortoises herself. She seems great and very knowledgeable and has great reviews and comes recommended by other tortoise owners I know.

Do you think he's showing signs of pyramiding then ? I only got the mv bulb because the pet shop guy said to and because various sites seemed to recommend including the tortoise trust and people in forums. The bulb is the Arcadia d3 basking lamp 100w.

As for the uv cards, yeah I don't trust them 100% either. So I just use them as a rough guide as to where the uv is and the rough level. I did some tests on them myself. Like outside and they seemed to roughly correlate with what the weather reports said the uv index would be. Under a normal led bulb where it detected no uv. Under the uv bulbs directly where they detected stronger uv etc so they do seem to actually detect uv to some degree and relatively accurately . I got them from swell reptile.

I have installed both bulbs as instructed 30 cm above the level of his shell.

 

[Markw84]

@Tom is correct. Those UV cards do not work for measuring UVB for our tortoises. They give an overall indication of total UV but there is not way of telling how much, if any, of the results it shows is from the specific bands of UVB that synthesizes D3. They are useless for this. The filters, sensor, and algorithm to correctly measure the UVB needed are very expensive. I know of only one meter on the market that accurately does this for a consumer level meter. that is the Solarmeter 6.5.

 

[No1much]

Hey thanks for that. I had a quick Google of the solar meter. I think it would be cheaper to just change the bulbs every few months regardless . Plus I could do without an extra set of numbers to obsess over. I'm already at risk of repetitive strain injury in my trigger finger from my temp gun .

Thanks for the help everyone I've gained alot of useful tips here ☺️

 

[Archie's mom]

I'm hoping the 25 is really 75?

I run lights 14 hours a day. A few hours a day under the UV is good.

Sounds like you got things to help your tortoise along. You might consider a humid hide - a plastic box with a tortoise size hole, filled with slightly moist peat moss.

Hi, I have a couple questions also, do you need a humid hide if your soaking him and how often should you and how do you soak if they are in semi-hibernation.

 

[No1much]

Hi, I have a couple questions also, do you need a humid hide if your soaking him and how often should you and how do you soak if they are in semi-hibernation.

I have a humid hide and soak everyday because I read on here that it won't hurt to. He hasn't urated in a while now which apparently means he's well hydrated (he does pee though obviously haha)

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

Hi, I have a couple questions also, do you need a humid hide if your soaking him and how often should you and how do you soak if they are in semi-hibernation.

A humid hide serves a different purpose than soaking with some overlap in effect. Soaking is to encourage drinking and pooping, while a humid hide is so the shell maintains a 'suppleness' regarding the horny/fingernail keratin atop the underlying bone. As for frequency soaks in a managed hibernation, please read the Russian care guide in this forum.