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I hope you've read and taken in Tom's words, but just in case: THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THE TORTOISE'S SHELL. IT'S NOT DECOLORIZATION. ALL NEW GROWTH ON EVERY RUSSIAN TORTOISE IN THE WORLD STARTS OUT CREAM-COLORED. YOU ARE SEEING NEW GROWTH! IF THE TORTOISE LIVED OUTSIDE THAT NEW GROWTH WOULD HARDEN AND DARKEN QUICKER.
I apologize if I have angered you. I did not mean to be offensive or rude in any way, and I believe that it has been resolved in all respect.
 

wellington

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Hi ruby looks in great health. i think i once read that when i tortoise loses there color on there shell it is because of water stains. i dont think its is worth worrying about. but i am not a tortoise expert. Charlie
In case you havent read other replays it is new growth. Not from water not water stains. It is new growth. No vet is needed. Recommending a vet can sometimes be more dangerous. Most vets have no clue about tortoise care and can do more damage then good.
 

CharlieS2020

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In case you havent read other replays it is new growth. Not from water not water stains. It is new growth. No vet is needed. Recommending a vet can sometimes be more dangerous. Most vets have no clue about tortoise care and can do more damage then good.
oh sorry like i said i am not a tort expert but thanks for correcting me.
 

MenagerieGrl

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You aren't understanding. This isn't "getting worse". This is normal growth. There is nothing wrong. Your tortoise lives a clean, mild, pampered, indoor life and the new growth isn't stained, dirty and weathered yet. This is GOOD! Your baby isn't suffering the rigors and hardships of the wild. Your baby is enjoying optimal controlled conditions.

Be careful with three UV sources. This can damage their eyes and the soft new growth as well. One UV source for 2-3 hours mid day is more than enough to meet their UV needs.

Give that care sheet a read though. Don't kill your tortoise with kindness.
Ruby's Parent,
I don't have as much experience as Tom, here, but honestly I don't see a problem here. It looks like a natural growth pattern. If everything else of going good, i.e. eating well, active, normal looking POOP. I wouldn't worry bout it much.
Please remember also these are ALL individuals. Look at us humans many healthy adults look different and have different characteristics even those related to our nationalities. IMHO.
 

MenagerieGrl

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No, it's me who needs to apologise. I'm sorry I yelled at you!
Thank you Yvonne!
I know some times we give an opinion, and it it gets overlooked due to the passion for our kids, and others reiterate the same opinion. but eventually the recipient will get the point (and in this case, all (for the most part) is good)
I personally appreciate your advice, as with Tom and others wiser than myself here.
 

William Lee Kohler

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As someone else also alluded to if you only feed 2 times a week you're STARVING your tortoise?. I feed mine every day normally with sometimes ONE skip day a week because of lackluster eating/wasting food.
 
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As someone else also alluded to if you only feed 2 times a week you're STARVING your tortoise?. I feed mine every day normally with sometimes ONE skip day a week because of lackluster eating/wasting food.
I believe that this information is incorrect for my tortoise. I will contact a professional to seek the answer.
 
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Based on what? What led you to believe that torts only need to eat twice a week?
Well I had been told by my local vet that doing more than that would make them obese, but after contacting a tortoise specialist they told me that I was, in fact, starving my tortoise. So yes, I was wrong and you guys are right. I am correcting my behavior and looking for what else I might be missing.
 
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I do have a problem, or more of a question here. So I feed her the size of her shell. Should I continue this, feed her more, less, or the same amount. I am aware of the malnutrition and am getting better food for her and am looking into nutrition supplements. I have always wanted the best for her, and so I am quite distraught to see that I had mis-cared for her.
 

KarenSoCal

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I do have a problem, or more of a question here. So I feed her the size of her shell. Should I continue this, feed her more, less, or the same amount. I am aware of the malnutrition and am getting better food for her and am looking into nutrition supplements. I have always wanted the best for her, and so I am quite distraught to see that I had mis-cared for her.

Start by feeding her a pile of greens the same size as she is (or to fill her shell). Leave it in her enclosure all day, and after lights out at night, pay attention to how much food was remaining. All of it gone? Some left over?

After 2-3 days, adjust the amount as needed. At the end of the day, there should be a small amount of food left in her dish. She should get all she wants of a wide variety of good nutritious foods every day.

I'm sorry that you were given such poor advice re' feeding. If you've done any extra reading on the forum, you have probably come across one or more members telling new keepers that most vets have no idea how to care for torts, and often cause more harm than good. Now you know why. Don't beat yourself up. You talked with someone you should have been able to trust, and took his advice. There is no fault in that, but just move forward from today.

Here is a very looong list of foods for tortoises. It will help you know what to look for in summer. In winter, you need to add amendments to improve on the grocery store food we all have to rely on. Read carefully...suggestions for this are on the list.

Compiled by Tom:
Good foods for tortoises are "chicories," types of lettuce that are likely to be on the far side of the more common floppy green heads of lettuce most people buy. Anything labeled as simply "chicory" is good, as are radiccio, frisee, escarole, and endive; you might even find something labeled as dandelions. You may find a bag of "Spring" or "Spicy" mix that is good, just check the label to be sure it has some of the chicories I just mentioned. The leaves (just the leaves) of turnips and radishes are also good, as are carrot tops. Collards, mustard greens, bok choy, and other dark, leafy greens are okay as well. If you have any kind of Mexican/hispanic market near you, they will sell cactus, labeled "nopales." Cactus is a great food to rotate in the diet, as it is high in calcium.

You don't need to feed all of these at one time, just make sure your tortoise is getting access to different types of food. As you get more experienced, you can find the better types of food listed on the care sheets.

Here are a whole bunch of non-grocery store suggestions.

Mulberry leaves
Grape vine leaves
Hibiscus leaves
African hibiscus leaves
Blue hibiscus leaves
Rose of Sharon leaves
Rose leaves
Geraniums
Gazanias
Nasturtium
Lavatera
Pansies
Petunias
Hostas
Honeysuckle
Cape honeysuckle
Leaves and blooms from any squash plant, like pumpkin, cucumber, summer squash, etc...
Young spineless opuntia cactus pads

Weeds:

There are soooooooo many...
Dandelion
Mallow
Filaree
Smooth Sow thistle
Prickly Sow thistle
Milk thistle
Goat head weed
Cats ear
Nettles
Trefoil
Wild onion
Wild mustard
Wild Garlic
Clovers
Broadleaf plantain
Narrow leaf plantain
Chick weed
Hawksbit
Hensbit
Hawksbeard

Other good stuff:


"Testudo Seed Mix" from http://www.tortoisesupply.com/SeedMixes

Pasture mixes or other seeds from http://www.groworganic.com/seeds.html

Homegrown alfalfa

Mazuri Tortoise Chow

ZooMed Grassland Tortoise Food

Ones that you can buy in every store:
Arugula
Lambs lettuce
Chicory
Kale
Mustard greens
Organic kohlrabi leafs
Organic carrot leafs
Organic radish leafs
Dandelions
Radiccio


Their main diet should be broad leaf weeds, succulents and grasses. Store bought foods are okay, but not the best. Collards and dandelions are a good food, but neither should be used every day. Check out the plant ID section for lots of ideas on weeds to feed. You can get spineless opuntia cactus pads from most Mexican grocery stores, or grow them yourself. You can also easily grow grape leaves, african hibiscus, regular hibiscus (if it will survive in your area), and mulberry leaves. You can try red apple, ice plant, and jade plant too. Also look into Gazania, pansies, nasturtiums, carnations, geraniums and many others. At the grocery store, favor endive and escarole, but also use cilantro, carrot tops, mustard and turnip greens, bok choy, radiccio, swiss chard, watercress, parsley, all the lettuces, etc. Lots of variety is best. There are also tortoise "weed" seed mixes that you can grow. I like the "Testudo Mix" from Tortoisesupply.com.
Buckwheat; cactus; vetch; Mohave aster; creosote bush; desert four o’clock; tacoma stans; bladderpod; globe mallow; goldenhead; burro weed; so many things!


Feeding:
So much contradictory info on this subject. Its simple. What do they eat in the wild. Grass, weeds, leaves, flowers, and succulents. Feed them a huge variety of these things, and you'll have a healthy tortoise. All of these species are very adaptable when it comes to diet and there is a very large margin of error, and many ways to do it right. What if you don't have this sort of "natural" tortoise food available for part of each year because you are in the snow? You will have no choice but to buy grocery store food. What's wrong with grocery store food? It tends to lack fiber, some items are low in calcium or have a poor calcium to phosphorous ratio, and some items have deleterious compounds in them. All of these short comings can be improved with some simple supplementation and amendments. A pinch of calcium two times per week will help fix that problem. You can also leave cuttle bone in the enclosure, so your tortoise can self-regulate its own calcium intake. What about fiber? Soaked horse hay pellets, soaked ZooMed Grassland pellets, Mazuri tortoise chow, "Salad style", "Herbal Hay" both from @TylerStewart and his lovely wife Sarah at Tortoisesupply.com, or many of the dried plants and leaves available from Will @Kapidolo Farms. If you must use grocery store foods, favor endive and escarole as your main staples. Add in arugula, cilantro, kale, collard, mustard and turnip greens, squash leaves, spring mix, romaine, green or red leaf lettuce, butter lettuce, water cress, carrot tops, celery tops, bok choy, and whatever other greens you can find. If you mix in some of the aforementioned amendments, these grocery store foods will offer plenty of variety and fiber and be able to meet your tortoises nutritional needs just fine. I find it preferable to grab a few grapevine or mulberry leaves, or a handful of mallow and clover, or some broadleaf plantain leaves and some grass, but with the right additions, grocery store stuff is fine too. Grow your own stuff, or find it around you when possible. Tyler and Sarah also sell a fantastic Testudo seed mix that is great for ALL tortoise species and also super easy to grow in pots, trays, raised garden beds, or in outdoor tortoise enclosures. When that isn't possible, add a wide variety of good stuff to your grocery store greens to make them better.

Supplements:
I recommend you keep cuttle bone available all the time. Some never use it and some munch on it regularly. Some of mine will go months without touching it, and then suddenly eat the whole thing in a day or two. Sulcatas and leopards grow a lot. This requires a tremendous amount of calcium assimilation over time. A great diet is paramount, but it is still a good idea to give them some extra calcium regularly. I use a tiny pinch of RepCal or ZooMed plain old calcium carbonate twice a week. Much discussion has been given to whether or not they need D3 in their calcium supplement. Personally, I don't think it matters. Every tortoise should be getting adequate UV exposure one way or another, so they should be able to make their own D3. I also like to use a mineral supplement. "MinerAll" is my current brand of choice. It seems to help those tortoises that like to swallow pebbles and rocks. It is speculated that some tortoise eat rocks or substrate due to a mineral deficiency or imbalance. Whatever the reason, "MinerAll" seems to stop it or prevent it. Finally, I like to use a reptile vitamin supplement once a week, to round out any hidden deficiencies that may be in my diet over the course of a year.
 

wellington

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Well I had been told by my local vet that doing more than that would make them obese, but after contacting a tortoise specialist they told me that I was, in fact, starving my tortoise. So yes, I was wrong and you guys are right. I am correcting my behavior and looking for what else I might be missing.
You seen to be missing the fact that most of the people on this forum have for years cared for many many tortoises. Your vet likely has not and likely has seen very few tortoises in his life time of being a vet. I think you need to read the info on this forum and stick to it and not what your vet says, your friends think, or your expert you speak of unless they are a member of this forum or practice what this forum teaches.
A tortoise living in an enclosure that is too small and not fed the proper diet will get fat. If it has the proper size enclosure and proper diet then it won't. However it should get fed every day. In the wild, unless there was no food available, they would eat.
 
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wellington

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I do have a problem, or more of a question here. So I feed her the size of her shell. Should I continue this, feed her more, less, or the same amount. I am aware of the malnutrition and am getting better food for her and am looking into nutrition supplements. I have always wanted the best for her, and so I am quite distraught to see that I had mis-cared for her.
The amount you are feeding is correct if he is not eating all of it. If he eats all of it then add a little more. Keep adding until he leaves a little that he doesnt finish. Leave that left over for the day incase he wants to snack in it later. Throw it out the next day if its bad
 

Tom

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Okay, will do.
Most of the care advice for tortoises given by breeders, vets, authors, and "experts", is just plain wrong. We've been doing it wrong for decades, and the wrong info has been passed down from generation to generation and it is now deeply ingrained in the "culture". I've been fighting it for more than 10 years now. You and your tortoise are now part of the lucky ones who've found and joined this forum. I'm glad we'll be able to help you make your tortoise's life better.
 

PatriciaM

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This is Ruby, my 15 year old horse-field’s tortoise. She is in good health other than the problem described below.
Ruby had a white ring around her shell about a few months ago, and I went to tortoise forums for help. All and each response I got was that this was normal, and would go away at some point as she got older. Well, as you might imagine, at this point it hasn’t. The de-colorization has me seriously concerned for her health and am on the brink of going to the closest professional reptile expert, about an hour away. I love her so much and want to see her in her prime, and so I think this is the right place to go.
Tortoise Specs:
Ruby, female, 15 yrs
Diet is radicchio, lettuce, and endive, twice a week.
She is bathed around 3 times a week, and always has access to clean water should she desire to take her own bath.
Hi! I think it may be where she has grown and this is new shell My very naughty Hermannns called Sammy has done this a few times and he is fine just a bit bigger. But, I do feed him every day both breakfast and tea with all sorts of weeds from garden and the pellets that tortoises (mine anyway) seem to like from Philledelfia (Spelling?) I live in South Wales UK so have to access these pellets through my local tortoise trust Dont worry I think Ruby looks great Patricia
 

Yossarian

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and the pellets that tortoises (mine anyway) seem to like from Philledelfia (Spelling?) I live in South Wales UK so have to access these pellets through my local tortoise trust


Could you tell me more about these pellets? What are they called and who do you get them from?
 
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