Species Selection and Your Climate

[Tom]

Okay stop rolling your eyes, all you cynics out there. No judgment or argument here. I just wanna know how other forum members feel about this.

With the right amount of time, trouble and expense, any species can survive and thrive anywhere on the planet. However, I usually keep practicality in mind when picking which species I want to keep. I am wondering how much YOUR climate influences your decision about which species you keep.

I'll start. For me, my climate is a very big influence in which species I choose to work with. Its very hot, sunny and dry here most of the year. I think its a great place for adult sulcatas, leopards and obviously, CDTs to live outside 24/7. I think its a great place for russians too, but the winters might be too warm and therefore require some refrigeration for hibernation. I don't think this is all that different than my outdoor adult sulcatas needing some night and winter heat. But this detail does start to creep into the realm of practicality for me. Another example: I love Manouria. I don't have much experience with them, but everything I have seen and heard makes me think I would love them. I, so far, have chosen not to get into them because once they are big adults and need to live outside, I think it is just too hot and dry here. I know it would be possible, but I would have to have indoor air conditioned quarters for them during the hot summer days, plus I would have to run misters, sprinklers and bend over backwards trying to keep enough lush greenery alive to create the right environment for them. My decision NOT to keep Manouria is mainly due to my climate.

For me, climate plays a big role in species selection. How about you? Remember this is just for the sake of some tortoise conversation...

 

[terryo]

I think the best place to keep a "shelled" animal is outside, so it breaks my heart every Fall when I have to bring Pio and Solo inside. I could never part with them now because I love them so, but if I had to do it all over, I would have gotten a species that could stay outside and hibernate naturally for the Winter. Even the best enclosure, vivarium, etc. provided for them cannot compare to living outside, where they belong, IMO.

 

[Tom]

Awe Terry. I think you are a shining example of how it can be done "right" anywhere with any species. I think your summers ARE perfect for RFs, and your indoor enclosures are second to none!

 

[ascott]

Ditto on your thread topic here Tom...I agree 100%....I adopted the two little RFs not too long ago and let me tell you and I will be completely insane before I achieve my goal of a perfect fake micro climate indoors for them....I do enjoy their gigantic subtle personalities....and this is a great adventure in tenacity on my part....LOL and they seem to be doing aok..even the weak one of the two seems to be showing her inquisitive side now that she has her own pad....however, I will in the future stick with my dry old desert dwelling CDTs....and my invasive RESs...my RFs are home here and I am sure they will be quite happy once I get my crap together bang on for them..and I will


And Ferrying...I would love to live in a world that mimics that fantastic vivarium of yours......

---

SORRY....using my dump smart phone...the last sentence I posted should have said;

And TerryO..... not And ferrying...... jeez.

 

[Lulu]

My husband has a RF, and that has inspired in me the resolution to stick to much lower maintenance species. I like my husband's local climate loving Russians. I do very little but seed their enclosure from time to time. I don't begrudge those that are willing to do the work. I'm just not up to it and I worry that I'll make a mistake somewhere or just get busy (with my child, with work, etc.) and not be able to keep it up. The Russians don't take much more work than my garden because of the climate.

 

[Tom]

That's a good point Renee. I too like species that require a minimum of time, expense and effort in my area. I guess I'm a LAZY tortoise keeper.

 

[Lulu]

I fully admit that, but I'm usually willing to work to support my laziness. I once had a bullfrog in a vivarium that was fairly self supporting. I only had to add fish to it every week or so and change the UVB bulb as needed, but I had to do some planning and building to get it to that point. That means I'm willing to do regular gardening in the tortoise enclosure so that there's a constantly growing food source (I ordered some dandelion and chicory seeds today), but I find daily fine maintenance to be too stressful. No exotics for me (though the Nature Center I'm volunteering with now calls what I have now "exotics" -- if they only knew).

I think the only thing I love as much as those modest Russians is that marginated. I'd love more but I'm not sure I have the room, anticipating Cecil's growth into a major yard hog.

 

[cherylim]

Having a different opinion to TerryO, climate played a big part in my choice as well.

Emrys does need to stay inside a lot. I live in the UK, and would never take the risk of hibernating a tortoise, so I had to choose something that would be small enough for me to care for it appropriately inside. I wanted to ensure that I had enough space for my tortoise to be happy inside, which limited me to smaller species, and I wanted to ensure that I could set up appropriate environments both inside and out.

Emrys will be an indoor tort more than an outdoor one. He'll get as much time as possible outside in the summer, but our English weather is very unpredictable and not always that great in the summer. The task for me is to give him plenty of space indoors, keep him happy, and have him outside whenever the weather allows. For that reason, I limited my choices to a Russian or a Hermann's, and went with the Hermann's.

 

[ALDABRAMAN]

I purchased property strategically located just for our aldabra breeding program. Our aldabras have had much influence in our lives, however anything worth while usually takes effort. I can say that our program has exceeded my expectations, a dream come true!

 

[stephiiberrybean]

I can't really say whether climate takes a lot into how I chose Squirt.
My mum and me agreed we wanted a large tortoise, well I wanted small but who doesn't fall in love with a leopard when they see one?, anyway we agreed on the leopard.
We discussed everything.
Did we have room outside for the summer - yes
Could we provide a Shed with heatlamp just in case it needed a bit more warmth - yes
Could we provide a big indoor area in the house for winter - yes
Do we have plenty of grasses and weeds - yes
(To the point where I am growing them in a green house at my nana's for winter/now)

At that point I said I'd get an older Leopard as they are a bit more hardy and can be warm and dry - don't need as much humidity.
Squirt is doing really well. She's quite shy but she loves exploring the living room almost every night and often spreads out in front of the fire after a nice soak. She is lovely and even though we might not be able to be perfect all the time with regards to our climate etc we will do our best to provide her with the climate and care she needs all year round.
I have to say everyone in the house loves her. So much so that they are always getting her treats out (like cucumber) when shes roaming the house as she will go and take it off them! I have to shout at them and tell them she's not allowed much veg! She's one spoilt tortoise.

When we had a sunny day a couple of months ago, it was warm enough for her to go outside but I was out and about and quite upset that she couldn't go outside yet (as we are building her outdoor area next year.) I rang mum up and was upset she couldn't spend the day out. I didn't know anyone was home so when I got back I was completely shocked to find my tortoise gone. I went into blind panic and ran round the house and rang my mum. To find my dad outside sat on a chair, reading a magazine and Squirt out in the sun enjoying exploring the whole of the garden
And he said he didn't want anything to do with, and i quote, "anymore of your(my) bl**dy pets" hehe!

 

[Jacqui]

.
With the right amount of time, trouble and expense, any species can survive and thrive anywhere on the planet. However, I usually keep practicality in mind when picking which species I want to keep. I am wondering how much YOUR climate influences your decision about which species you keep.

For me, climate plays a big role in species selection. How about you? Remember this is just for the sake of some tortoise conversation...

For me, no climate is not my first consideration. First consideration to me, is do I have the land and space to even be thinking about this animal. For me, if I were renting or even worse just using land or property own by somebody else, I would never get a large tortoise, let a lone a large group of them. Why? Simply because you loose control over what you can do or even how long you can stay some where. It resists you on how well you can build an enclosure, when there should always be in the back of your mind the reality that the landowner can at any time tell you that you have to move out, limit, or cutback on the tortoises you have.

Next comes climate, do I have the natural climate for the species I am considering or can I meet it's requirements manually? This may be something as simple as having a heated enclosure out in their yard for those odd cold nights or a more elaborate time consuming money burning creation such as Tom's Manouria example.

I do not believe you are valid in saying you have chosen a species SUITABLE for your climate, if you must house hatchlings inside, if you must provide refrigeration for the Russians, if you must run sprinklers, if you need to have a heated place for them at all and so on. It just means you have to do less to meet their requirements. That would severely limit all of us on our choices, if we just go with what can naturally 24/7 live where we each live.

For me, part of the reason I love keeping tortoises is the challenge. I just can't describe the joy it brings me to create a habitat my tortoises enjoy. I guess it's sorta like giving birth to a child. You spend months working on the creation. You research, you save, you spend, you go from mentally visualizing to seeing the reality come alive. Then comes the time for the hard labor where you sweat, you bleed, and usually end up swearing a bit. It seems like you will never be down and then suddenly there it is. There is this moment of just wonder that you could have done all that. You want to take pictures, rush out to your friends, and hear them tell you what a great job you did. Just like with that new human life, this new enclosure life (and tortoise too! ) needs changing, caring, and nurturing. Somethings you bought with such great expectations only to find they just did not work out as planned, that your child (or tortoise) would rather play with the box (or pot) they came in. Just like with a child, some folks are very involved in the day to day life of their tortoise and love every second of it. Some folks leave the parenting and even the care to others. Neither way is wrong and each of us need to find where are needs and ability to spend time with them are.

To me, it is important that when my animals do get to enjoy the natural climate outside, that they get quality time to make up for the lack of quantity natural time. For me this means super large enclosures, plant growth that I affectionately call a jungle here, and lots of things to hide under, crawl over, things to stimulate all their senses.

Inside I try to mimic outside life as much as possible. While they do loose large enclosure size, I do work it so lights vary when they come on, how long they stay on, how hot the temps get and how low. So they have cloudy days, sunny hot days, cooler nights and some days, and don't forget rainy days. I believe in variety.

Diet too is a variety. I think several of you may have heard how for years I searched for figs alone. I finally broke down and decided to raise my own, so I have several of them and hope maybe by next year I will have my first home grown one. Of course, once I finally located some fruit to try (thanks again Mark!), my hingebacks all turned up their noses at the figs.

So while climate is something I think about, it is not for me a determining factor in what species I work with. Instead if there is a species I want, I research it and keep it at the back of my mind until I have the ability to give it what it needs. Nature gave these animals the ability to adapt and I think I am (as are almost all of us who have to make some addition to the natural world our tortoises live in be it a simple light or a complex environmental remake), working with that side of the tortoise. They are facing currently what may be their biggest time of need for that adaptation ability, if they are to keep from going extinct. With limited people out there willing to invest the time into trying to keep them surviving (atleast in captivity), I think we sure be giving extra praise to those living in less then optimal climate locations for working with these special creatures, rather then trying to make them feel guilty for it. ...just my thought.

I work with hingebacks mainly and I can't imagine not working with them. I think a big part of how much your willing to do, how far your willing to go with tortoises is where your heart is. If I were told I had to only work with Russians, let's say for argument sake, I would not be in to tortoises most likely. At best,their habitats would never be up to what I could do, simply because my heart is not into it and care would be more minimal. To me, that would be a greater crime, then having them where the climate is not "ideal" for them to live.

The end deal is we all have to decide for ourselves what we want to give and what we want out of having these amazing animals. There is no right way nor a wrong way. Some of you like being as the term was used by others, "lazy keepers" tho that seems a bit demeaning of you folks, while some of us are willing to give more, create more, and unfortunately spend more. I guess if you guys are lazy then the rest of us are just plain crazy keepers?

 

[ripper7777777]

Personally I researched the animals and than looked for folks in my area raising them and looked at how little or how much work it took and based my decisions on that. So I guess if climate played a part in their decisions it also played into mine. I to don't mind the effort it takes to set things up, but I'm not big on tons of daily tasks, I have 3 kids for that.

But even after researching and talking to people, my daughters look of joy when she held the baby sulcata was the final decision maker.

 

[GBtortoises]

I have absolutely chose what I have based climate. For quite a few years early on I kept every species of tortoise and turtle under the sun, had some awesome and very rare ones. But I eventually decided that I wanted to keep the Northern Mediterranean Testudo species almost exclusively because they could easily be maintained outdoors here in the Northeast and more specifically in my microclimate. The fact that I can observe them "acting naturally" outdoors is why they became my favorites, even over some really rare and exotic species. As much as I really like many other species of tortoise too, I just don't feel that it would be fair to most of them to attempt to keep them here. I'd love to have some big Aldabras roaming around, some Radiateds and more. But realistically, they'd have to spend 9 months out of the year here in smaller indoor enclosures because of my climate. I swore to myself that I would no longer keep tortoises that I couldn't keep outdoors most of the time. I've went back on that a bit with keeping Pancakes again but I've resisted other species (so far)!

 

[nikki0601]

Not exactly my first consideration but climate definitely played a role in me choosing Sulcata, well actually Sulcata is what I wanted long before I even knew much about them but as I did my research and learned that FL is one of the best states to raise them in, that just confirmed that I had to have one, spending these next couple months learning about Leopards and hoping to learn a Leo will fit well with me too, we ahall see

 

[Kristina]

I agree that tortoises should be outside whenever possible. I do not however feel that being in an indoor enclosure for a few months out of the year is all that big of a disservice to them, provided that all of their needs are being met.

That said, I think that climate does play a role in selecting tortoises for each individual person. It all depends on the resources, space, time, money, and dedication that you can put in to caring for your tortoises. Well, it should, anyway. There is a good reason I do not yet have Pancakes, Impresseds, Elongateds, and a few others. I need to buy a bigger house (and I am so totally gonna, too )

For me, climate does have some of an impact - but in the end, I figure that I am a better choice as an owner than Joe Schmoe from Maine who wants to keep a Sulcata in a 10 gallon aquarium - so, somehow I ended up with 5 of them, lol.

 

[stells2]

Didn't influence my decisions at all... if it had of done... i wouldn't keep tortoises at all here in the UK.... as we have no native tortoises or turtles...

It depends how much work you want too put into giving them what they need...

You bought this subject up a few years ago... this seems like a better worded rerun of that...

 

[Angi]

I did not choose my torts, but will stick with torts that do well in my climate.

 

[Tccarolina]

I live in central CA. I get 12-13 inches of rain, and it falls during the winter and early spring. Winters are wet, sometimes foggy, and occasionally drop below freezing. Summer days are hot, dry, and cloudless. Summer nights drop to the high 50's to the low 70's. My climate is a classic Mediterranean Climate.
I keep middle eastern greeks because of my climate, and I like their variability. My climate matches their native habitat very closely.
I keep eastern box turtles because I can't stay away from them. I like their variability. I have to do a lot to make an outdoor pen that mimics their natural habitat and environment.
I am constantly messing with my pens, trying to make them similar to my species natural habitat, while ensuring they have what they need.

 

[wellington]

I did not base my decision on climate. I always wanted a very large tortoise. I researched many large breeds, what their needs were, what their characteristics were, could I give them enough space indoor and out and could I afford to supply all the things he/she would need to best simulate the natural habitat from which his ancestors way back when had once come from. My decision led me to a Leopard, big but not to big. I also have marine fish, koi, African lizard, Bengal cat, Quaker parrot, and a Bull Terrier, non that is native to where I live, Chicago and most not to this country. I do what I need to, too give them the best and to live a long happy life. Most say my animals are spoiled, my kid is to, although he doesn't think so. I used to breed and show Chinese Shar-Pei, not native to most of our climates, but if it wasn't for many of us, the Chinese Shar-Pei would have become extinct. So, you have one life to live, live in it with what you want but also do what you can afford

 

[Tortoise]

I purchased property strategically located just for our aldabra breeding program. Our aldabras have had much influence in our lives, however anything worth while usually takes effort. I can say that our program has exceeded my expectations, a dream come true!

ALDABRAMAN-your photo always blows me away-you are so lucky to be able to keep the Aldabras-please keep sharing your dreamy photos!!!!