Trimming Gular Horn?

[Sweeper13]

HI...Does this have to be done by vet or can I do it myself? If there are any links or post , please let me know. I've tried looking and not having much luck.

Thanks

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Sweeper13, and welcome to the Forum!

I've had a sulcata or two for over 20 years. My current male sulcata, Dudley, weighs about 110lbs and has pretty much stopped growing. In all this time, and with all the rescued sulcatas I've taken in, I've never, NEVER, seen a gular that needed to be trimmed.

If you deem this to be an absolute necessity, then you should have a vet do it, as it is going to bleed copiously. Please don't try to do this yourself.

Please post a picture so we can give you a better answer.

 

[ascott]

Please post a picture so we can give you a better answer.

Ditto

 

[Tom]

I've seen 100's of sulcatas over the last 20+ years. I too have never seen a single one that needed a gular trim. That is not something you do. Can you post a pic to show us what the problem is?

 

[Sweeper13]

I had him at the vet for a beak trim. They mentioned if the gular gets in the way of eating, they could trim. I ve noticed latelly he's having issues getting food close to him.

Thanks for the replies.

 

[Yvonne G]

Oh my word...that's NOTHING!! Just wait until he gets to be 100lbs and see what that gular looks like. Tortoises quickly learn that they have to put their head out to the side to get food that's on the ground. Your tortoise's gular is still just a baby gular, and nothing to be concerned about.

 

[Tom]

You can rest easy Sweeper. There is nothing at all abnormal about your tortoise's gulars and absolutely no need to trim them. Even 20 years from now when those gulars are REALLY long, your tortoise will have no problem eating around them.

I'm sure glad you asked.

This makes your vet very questionable to me. I don't wish to offend you, but a vet that would even offer a "gular trim" is very suspect. The fact that there is nothing abnormal or troublesome in the least makes it sound even more outlandish. Be careful following advice from this vet. It does not sound like the person has a very good understanding of tortoises.

 

[Sweeper13]

Thanks Tom, will do.

 

[Pokeymeg]

I'd say it's fine...here's a crazy gular on a gopher tort for comparison!

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-56953.html#axzz2BvoIfDTd

 

[dannel]

I'd say it's fine...here's a crazy gular on a gopher tort for comparison!

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-56953.html#axzz2BvoIfDTd

OMG! Poor thing!

 

[Baoh]

Your animal does not need a trim. I could understand if they were growing in some severely deformed fashion or some other exceptional situation, but your animal's gular scutes look fine.

 

[Sweeper13]

Thanks for all the FAST replies. Tom, I will keep that in mind.

Can you guys & gals recommend how to place food for him? If I should continue to leave on ground or lift it up?


There maybe double post, my quick reply post arent going thru.

 

[DeanS]

You got no worries! Just for comparison...check out the gulars on one of Brad's 250 pound beasts! As I said when he originally posted this shot...those gulars are bayonet and battering ram rolled into one!

 

[Sweeper13]

WOW..

 

[Yvonne G]

Your tortoise should have no trouble grazing off growing grasses and weeds. And this is the very best diet for him. Most of us with sulcatas have them outside all year, with heated houses or sheds for them to go into when they get cold. If that is not possible for you (try to think about it, as it is best), then just pile up the food on a piece of cement or rough rock and he'll figure out how to eat around his gular.

 

[DeanS]

As Tomas Diagne suggests...adult sulcata utilize the gular as sort of a baler! In the wild, they collect grasses with the gular and take what they reap down into their burrows...to dine at their leisure!

 

[Baoh]

As Tomas Diagne suggests...adult sulcata utilize the gular as sort of a baler! In the wild, they collect grasses with the gular and take what they reap down into their burrows...to dine at their leisure!

Has anyone else observed this, or is it confined to one individual's claim?

I have not looked too hard, but I do not remember any source for this beyond the one.

One would imagine, with the great many sulcatas kept in the US in a variety of setups, that there would be more accounts to corroborate the claim.

 

[DeanS]

As Tomas Diagne suggests...adult sulcata utilize the gular as sort of a baler! In the wild, they collect grasses with the gular and take what they reap down into their burrows...to dine at their leisure!

Has anyone else observed this, or is it confined to one individual's claim?

I have not looked too hard, but I do not remember any source for this beyond the one.

One would imagine, with the great many sulcatas kept in the US in a variety of setups, that there would be more accounts to corroborate the claim.

You're presuming this doesn't exist in captivity...and you maybe right! This is observed regularly in Senegal with wild specimens. There's no reason to assume it wouldn't occur in captivity, except for the fact that most people don't (or won't) let their grasses and weeds grows tall enough for a captive sulcata to bother plowing...especially when they're fed routinely. I doubt ANY are being fed in the wild

 

[Baoh]

As Tomas Diagne suggests...adult sulcata utilize the gular as sort of a baler! In the wild, they collect grasses with the gular and take what they reap down into their burrows...to dine at their leisure!

Has anyone else observed this, or is it confined to one individual's claim?

I have not looked too hard, but I do not remember any source for this beyond the one.

One would imagine, with the great many sulcatas kept in the US in a variety of setups, that there would be more accounts to corroborate the claim.

You're presuming this doesn't exist in captivity...and you maybe right! This is observed regularly in Senegal with wild specimens. There's no reason to assume it wouldn't occur in captivity, except for the fact that most people don't (or won't) let their grasses and weeds grows tall enough for a captive sulcata to bother plowing...especially when they're fed routinely. I doubt ANY are being fed in the wild

Have others observed it beyond the one individual? If so, what others? I have never seen it claimed by others, including those who leave their sulcatas to their own devices all year (outdoors). I have known a number of folks in FL who provide nothing but fenced land and collect the eggs when they notice nests, but they do not seem to have seen this out of the group I have been able to reach out to after several years (I left central FL in 2005, so I do not have all of my old contacts).

I do not feed my sulcatas when they are outside, but mine are not outside year-'round, so I exclude mine from being used to weigh in one way or another. They keep what they kill, so to speak. I do leave areas of very tall grass for them for visual barriers, but -again- not the full year, so it counts for nothing as I see it.

What is the process by which they are purported to use the gulars to act as a baler? I have used mechanical balers before, but those are significantly more involved than an immobile pair of scutes. With the mechanics involved between gular angle, shape, length, and the leg lengths of the animals, it should not even make a good rake, which can be used to drag and form stacks. Even old-school balers were basically a parallel series of curved rakes, which the gular scutes do not approximate. Without fanning gular scute structures, that would make the process extremely inefficient, whether dragging or bulldozing. Have they taken any videos of whatever the method would be? Or even a photo sequence?

A lot of folks provide hay in large quantities to sulcatas, too, as their sole or prime source of food. Have any of them noted this storage behavior? I have never heard or read any of them mention so, but that does not mean others have not seen the behavior.

 

[Tom]

Tomas is the only person I have heard mention this. He said they use their head, shoulders and gulars to collect and drag green grasses and weeds down into their burrows. He said they line their entire burrow with it, and made a hand motion indicating a lining thickness of around 12", and eat it through the entire dry season. I presume this only happens in the wild. One reason we don't see it in North America is because we don't have a distinct 3-4 month rainy season, coupled with a corresponding 8-9 month dry season. Also, as Tomas states it, they only have two season over there. "Hot and hotter". I have been watching temps in six random spots across the known range of the sulcata, since last November and high temps are usually near 100 every day. There have been a few rainy days where temps only reached the high 80s, and a few cooler periods where the daily highs only reached the low 90s, but it's has been mostly around 100 pretty consistently every day. Even in AZ, and Southern TX or Southern Florida we have cool spells down into the 60s or lower. According to Tomas they live very differently over there. He was shocked when touring tortoise compounds here in the States to see sulcatas just up and walking around out in the open. He says the wild ones do not do that over there. They live almost their entire lives underground over there and it is rare to see one above ground, especially during the dry season.

He has a new book coming soon. He is currently compiling and organizing data right now. The new book will include ranges, temps and humidity, both above ground and underground in burrows, much behavioral info of the sort we are discussing, etc. Never have I been so excited about the release of a new book. It should expand upon and answer many of the questions raised in the first book. Have you read "The Crying Tortoise"? Fascinating read, and very different than any other tortoise book I have ever read.