I would do the same.
Vet visit questions
- Thread starter CathyNed
- Start date
Hi CathyNed
Like others have already said it is better to go to an experienced vet even if he is 3 hours away. In Poland there are very few herp vets and this means I always have to travel with my torts when push comes to shove. And we don't even travel by car but by train! They seem to be doing fine, quite stressed out at first but then they start to like the adventure.
So, as to your cute tort and his back legs. I had a rescue once and her back legs were so weak that she was unable to walk. I gave her warm baths but in a slightly different manner. I would fill the tub with lots of water, way too much for a tort, and then put a brick inside. I would place the tort on that brick with his legs loose in the water. The natural reflex action is to start moving the legs. I remember this semi-swimming has improved the strength in her back legs greatly and in half year she was able to walk with her plastron lifted up again. She was actually roaming the outside pen! Also another option if you want to have more control over the whole rehabilitation process is to make this simple device out of few elastic stripes which you place under the plastron. You hold the ends of the stripes in your hand and gently immerse the tort in the water. The water has to be deep, so that the tort doesn't touch the ground. Also remember to keep his head out of the water at all times! This rehabilitation has done wonders for the rescue I had. I was also bathing her in water with essence of herbs that support liver and kidneys, artichoke was my choice.
Walking on the floor (slippery ones, like tiles etc) causes deformities of their limbs so I would avoid it. Whenever there is some sun in Ireland and the temps are over 20 degrees C, take him outside and you will see a different tort, I can assure you!
The lump under his chin worries me because you write he has gone through a lot and this is the place that the residues of uric acid tend to gather causing gout. Of course in case of your tort this maybe something completely different, but I would suggest this option to a vet. A blood test would reveal if this is what causes the swelling. In small torts it is best to draw blood from coccygeal vein in the tail.
I am attaching a link to picture showing gout in a tort. It is very graphic so please see at your own discretion.
http://www.terrarium.com.pl/wp-content/uploads/414.jpg
It is very important that your tort starts eating and swallowing because he seems so thin judging from the pictures. I wish him quick recover and all the best to both of you!
Like others have already said it is better to go to an experienced vet even if he is 3 hours away. In Poland there are very few herp vets and this means I always have to travel with my torts when push comes to shove. And we don't even travel by car but by train! They seem to be doing fine, quite stressed out at first but then they start to like the adventure.
So, as to your cute tort and his back legs. I had a rescue once and her back legs were so weak that she was unable to walk. I gave her warm baths but in a slightly different manner. I would fill the tub with lots of water, way too much for a tort, and then put a brick inside. I would place the tort on that brick with his legs loose in the water. The natural reflex action is to start moving the legs. I remember this semi-swimming has improved the strength in her back legs greatly and in half year she was able to walk with her plastron lifted up again. She was actually roaming the outside pen! Also another option if you want to have more control over the whole rehabilitation process is to make this simple device out of few elastic stripes which you place under the plastron. You hold the ends of the stripes in your hand and gently immerse the tort in the water. The water has to be deep, so that the tort doesn't touch the ground. Also remember to keep his head out of the water at all times! This rehabilitation has done wonders for the rescue I had. I was also bathing her in water with essence of herbs that support liver and kidneys, artichoke was my choice.
Walking on the floor (slippery ones, like tiles etc) causes deformities of their limbs so I would avoid it. Whenever there is some sun in Ireland and the temps are over 20 degrees C, take him outside and you will see a different tort, I can assure you!
The lump under his chin worries me because you write he has gone through a lot and this is the place that the residues of uric acid tend to gather causing gout. Of course in case of your tort this maybe something completely different, but I would suggest this option to a vet. A blood test would reveal if this is what causes the swelling. In small torts it is best to draw blood from coccygeal vein in the tail.
I am attaching a link to picture showing gout in a tort. It is very graphic so please see at your own discretion.
http://www.terrarium.com.pl/wp-content/uploads/414.jpg
It is very important that your tort starts eating and swallowing because he seems so thin judging from the pictures. I wish him quick recover and all the best to both of you!
Yes, I got his xray on a cd and his blood work printed for me. The x ray machine works the same for them too, it is not painful or unpleasent for them.
@JoesMum @Yvonne G @Sara G. @Kori5 @martaemha @Lyn W
Hi everyone. Thanks for all your help and suggestions. I decided to email the herp specialist vet yesterday and send some pics just to see. I wasnt expecting to get a reply to be honest as i thought she might not want to give any suggested treatments or diagnosis and then have me go to another vet to have treatment carried out. To my surprise she had emailed me back at 9am on a Sunday morning of a bank holiday weekend here. Im very impressed. She thinks given his history and the pics i sent that he has MBD and possible kidney problem. I have made an appointment with her and am going to bring him to her hospital where he will be admitted for treatment blood tests and xrays. Not sure at this point what the prognoais is or what course of treatment may be but she is the best of the best in Ireland with regards to reptiles so if anyone can help him it will b her. Im really really hoping he will be ok. He is such a character and absolutely adorable. Just wanted to keep you all updated and thanks again fot help and suggestions. Always aprreciated!
Hi everyone. Thanks for all your help and suggestions. I decided to email the herp specialist vet yesterday and send some pics just to see. I wasnt expecting to get a reply to be honest as i thought she might not want to give any suggested treatments or diagnosis and then have me go to another vet to have treatment carried out. To my surprise she had emailed me back at 9am on a Sunday morning of a bank holiday weekend here. Im very impressed. She thinks given his history and the pics i sent that he has MBD and possible kidney problem. I have made an appointment with her and am going to bring him to her hospital where he will be admitted for treatment blood tests and xrays. Not sure at this point what the prognoais is or what course of treatment may be but she is the best of the best in Ireland with regards to reptiles so if anyone can help him it will b her. Im really really hoping he will be ok. He is such a character and absolutely adorable. Just wanted to keep you all updated and thanks again fot help and suggestions. Always aprreciated!
I'm so glad you're getting the help you need. Good luck to you and your tort
Sara G.
Active Member
Yes, I'm glad too, and definitely keep us updated! 
@Lyn W @Kori5 @Sara G. @Yvonne G @JoesMum
So in a weird twist of events i got shingles....which also means I got time off work....which also means I can now take Ned on the cross country trip to the reputable reptile vet.His appointment is tomorrow and he will be kept for a number of days so they can do every test possible and administer any treatments needed....
1.I am nervous. I am a country bumpkin and I very much dislike city driving and guess where I have to go! Yay!
2. I am sad. I've had Ned for 8years and he has very rarely been away from me for a week if ever. I will be very sad to leave him with strangers....even very helpful strangers...i may be in tears leaving the vets tomorrow....and at home every time i pass his empty enclosure....
3. I am worried about what the vet will have to say about his condition. I am hoping that whatever it is it is treatable.
4. I am looking forward to (hopefully) the weekend when I will be nervous again to go drive to the city to collect him and be delighted to bring him home where I will be overjoyed to serve him up a big plate of delicious tesudo mix which should be grown to feeding point by the time he returns....wish me luck!
So in a weird twist of events i got shingles....which also means I got time off work....which also means I can now take Ned on the cross country trip to the reputable reptile vet.His appointment is tomorrow and he will be kept for a number of days so they can do every test possible and administer any treatments needed....
1.I am nervous. I am a country bumpkin and I very much dislike city driving and guess where I have to go! Yay!
2. I am sad. I've had Ned for 8years and he has very rarely been away from me for a week if ever. I will be very sad to leave him with strangers....even very helpful strangers...i may be in tears leaving the vets tomorrow....and at home every time i pass his empty enclosure....
3. I am worried about what the vet will have to say about his condition. I am hoping that whatever it is it is treatable.
4. I am looking forward to (hopefully) the weekend when I will be nervous again to go drive to the city to collect him and be delighted to bring him home where I will be overjoyed to serve him up a big plate of delicious tesudo mix which should be grown to feeding point by the time he returns....wish me luck!
Good luck to both you and your tort
Sorry to hear your poorly but glad it's worked out well for Ned.
I can understand your anxiety about the trip and leaving Ned, I would feel the same about Lola, but just keep remembering it is all to get him the best help. When they get the results back I expect they will check with you before they treat him, and I know they are the experts but if they say he needs something you aren't sure about, you can always check here to see if anyone has had similar experience of meds and proceedures etc and how their tort reacted, which may vary greatly but could be things to discuss with the vet. I hope it all goes well for you and Ned. Drive carefully and stay positive.
...........and hope you are feeling better soon too. Any chance you could stay close by in a B&B to pop in to see him?
I can understand your anxiety about the trip and leaving Ned, I would feel the same about Lola, but just keep remembering it is all to get him the best help. When they get the results back I expect they will check with you before they treat him, and I know they are the experts but if they say he needs something you aren't sure about, you can always check here to see if anyone has had similar experience of meds and proceedures etc and how their tort reacted, which may vary greatly but could be things to discuss with the vet. I hope it all goes well for you and Ned. Drive carefully and stay positive.
...........and hope you are feeling better soon too. Any chance you could stay close by in a B&B to pop in to see him?
Hi CathyNed, me and my torts have our fingers crossed for you and Ned! It seems like he is in good hands. It's always stressful for the owner to leave his pet, but you're doing it for his own good. I hope it all turns out fine for you!
@Lyn W @JoesMum @martaemha @Kori5 @Sara G. @Yvonne G
Hey guys took Ned to the vet vesterday. Got there safely. First reaction was that Neds skin is vey tough and dehydrated looking.lots of thick dead skin that hadn't fallen off. She felt he was very small.i got him at a pet shop when he was supposedly 20 and he would then be 28now. His shell is 5in long.she asked about how he was started or reared but i have no idea.He was pyramided when i got him and new growth has been smoother. She said the puffiness around neck was edema and could be caused by a range of things which could include kidney damage but couldnt know until tested. Not a typical standard case of MBD as his shell is very solid. Bumps at jaw are what she described as uric deposits if calcium is leeched from bone this is deposited or forms in its place. She felt his joints on back legs and thought they might be swollen or that it might also be edema but ther was sign of muscle wastage.She said she may have difficulty taking blood sample as so much swelling around neck. Also his mouth was pale as though anaemic.Basically on leaving yesyerday i did not have a very positive feeling. (Even as i type it now it sounds awful) She asked what i fed him and said it was perfect as it is mostly weeds and wildfowers (dandelion,plantain, clover,geranium, lambs leaf, kale in winter etc) The main thing she said was a good sign was that he was eating and eager to eat. We fed him some bindweed there.
She passed a tube down to ensure there wasnt a blockage and gave him fluids. He at that point ran across the table to me in a save me save me kind of motion.She then gave him a shot of antibiotic. She asked permission to do a full battery of tests xray, blood,fecal and said that she would have some done today and to call at 4pm.
I called today and she said that he is alert and eating well. No sign of pneumonia from xray but shell is not as mineralised as it should be. Lacking in calcium, possible cause being not enough calcium or uvb or else kidney damage causing it to not be absorbed properly. Knees show no sign of arthritis /swelling/gout. Blood sample was not perfect as some lymph in it. She analysed it. He is anaemic. Uric acid levels were not sky high.he is low in protein which she thinks is causing adema.not ruling out kidney damage as blood sample not completely accurate as lymph was present but she would have expected uric acid levels to be higher if so. She is continuing to hydrate him. She said she doesnt think he is beyond fighting.
Thats todays update and i was told to ring back tomorrow to find out more.Dont know what to think. Lacking calcium uvb i had suspected based on my bulb ignorance. He had it, it just wasnt replaced when it should have been and was likely not providing any uvb anymore. I feed him foods which should be high in iron and protein (dandelions/rocket/land/water cress) so if he is lacking in these things is it because liver and kidneys are not working as they should? I dont know what to do.what other foods can you guys think of that i should feed him that would be high in protein/iron?Have 12 trays planted with mustard, rocket, lambs lettuce, land cress, mixed leaf lettuce, aubretia and godetia. They are all well on their way to feedig ready. Im lucky enough to live on a farm where we grow lots of fruit and veg but if food is grown in soil with manure and topped off with compost that may contain those little balls of fertiliser and things like slug pellets are used on top of the soil can the greens of the veg be fed or will they be toxic?
Ive replaced all his bulbs in enclosure since he started to seem unwell and been checking temps etc. I do think he has picked up since. Im just hoping whatever it is he is strong enough to pull though it and it hasnt gone too far or caused too much damage. She will keep him until Saturday. Any tips/hints/ideas or advice welcome! Thanks guys!
Hey guys took Ned to the vet vesterday. Got there safely. First reaction was that Neds skin is vey tough and dehydrated looking.lots of thick dead skin that hadn't fallen off. She felt he was very small.i got him at a pet shop when he was supposedly 20 and he would then be 28now. His shell is 5in long.she asked about how he was started or reared but i have no idea.He was pyramided when i got him and new growth has been smoother. She said the puffiness around neck was edema and could be caused by a range of things which could include kidney damage but couldnt know until tested. Not a typical standard case of MBD as his shell is very solid. Bumps at jaw are what she described as uric deposits if calcium is leeched from bone this is deposited or forms in its place. She felt his joints on back legs and thought they might be swollen or that it might also be edema but ther was sign of muscle wastage.She said she may have difficulty taking blood sample as so much swelling around neck. Also his mouth was pale as though anaemic.Basically on leaving yesyerday i did not have a very positive feeling. (Even as i type it now it sounds awful) She asked what i fed him and said it was perfect as it is mostly weeds and wildfowers (dandelion,plantain, clover,geranium, lambs leaf, kale in winter etc) The main thing she said was a good sign was that he was eating and eager to eat. We fed him some bindweed there.
She passed a tube down to ensure there wasnt a blockage and gave him fluids. He at that point ran across the table to me in a save me save me kind of motion.She then gave him a shot of antibiotic. She asked permission to do a full battery of tests xray, blood,fecal and said that she would have some done today and to call at 4pm.
I called today and she said that he is alert and eating well. No sign of pneumonia from xray but shell is not as mineralised as it should be. Lacking in calcium, possible cause being not enough calcium or uvb or else kidney damage causing it to not be absorbed properly. Knees show no sign of arthritis /swelling/gout. Blood sample was not perfect as some lymph in it. She analysed it. He is anaemic. Uric acid levels were not sky high.he is low in protein which she thinks is causing adema.not ruling out kidney damage as blood sample not completely accurate as lymph was present but she would have expected uric acid levels to be higher if so. She is continuing to hydrate him. She said she doesnt think he is beyond fighting.
Thats todays update and i was told to ring back tomorrow to find out more.Dont know what to think. Lacking calcium uvb i had suspected based on my bulb ignorance. He had it, it just wasnt replaced when it should have been and was likely not providing any uvb anymore. I feed him foods which should be high in iron and protein (dandelions/rocket/land/water cress) so if he is lacking in these things is it because liver and kidneys are not working as they should? I dont know what to do.what other foods can you guys think of that i should feed him that would be high in protein/iron?Have 12 trays planted with mustard, rocket, lambs lettuce, land cress, mixed leaf lettuce, aubretia and godetia. They are all well on their way to feedig ready. Im lucky enough to live on a farm where we grow lots of fruit and veg but if food is grown in soil with manure and topped off with compost that may contain those little balls of fertiliser and things like slug pellets are used on top of the soil can the greens of the veg be fed or will they be toxic?
Ive replaced all his bulbs in enclosure since he started to seem unwell and been checking temps etc. I do think he has picked up since. Im just hoping whatever it is he is strong enough to pull though it and it hasnt gone too far or caused too much damage. She will keep him until Saturday. Any tips/hints/ideas or advice welcome! Thanks guys!
The battery of tests he is undergoing is daunting.
What the vet will determine hopefully is how much of this caused by poor care before you got him.
I think his specific care needs after this will be determined by the vet who really does know what she's talking about. I hope the bill isn't too painful.
What the vet will determine hopefully is how much of this caused by poor care before you got him.
I think his specific care needs after this will be determined by the vet who really does know what she's talking about. I hope the bill isn't too painful.
I know when i got him i was told in the petshop to put a head of iceberg lettuce in with him once a week and hed be sorted. If he was raised like that for 20 years would he even be alive? She thinks it may have stunted his growth. Does pyramiding cause them to grow high rather than out?
The bill is daunting. She is the only reptile specialist in the republic and i suspect she can charge as she likes. I honestly dont care what it costs. I would never attempt to sacrifice what he needs for cost. Im glad that ive got a decent paying permanent job here and am in a position to be able to pay to have them done.I do wish i had made the drive a month ago and gone straight to her. I just want him to be well and happy.( i will not be telling my parents about the vets bills as my father equates everything to cattle and lets just say....he could buy a few calves) are reptile vets visits expensive in the uk?
Any ideas about affect of fertiliser in compost on the plants and whether it makes them toxic to torts. I dont see much fertiliser in it but there are some small pellets of slow release stuff. I picked out any i saw. Surely the spring mix leaves etc we buy from shops are grown in fertilised soil? Id have a much wider variety of food available if i thougjt that they wouldnt be toxic. Is the just out on spinch i ask because i know it is high in iron and protein but ive alsi read that its full of oxidants. Do the risks outweigh the benefits?
I just want to clarify....i never fed him the iceberg lettuce....im just pointing out the level of care i was told he needed. They also said he didnt need a basking lamp just a heat mat!
Sara G.
Active Member
I think you might be better off using organic potting soil or something and taking young plants and replanting them in that.
Fertilizers can be harmful to torts even when they're being put through the plants.
Fertilizers can be harmful to torts even when they're being put through the plants.
If the plants are suitable for human consumption, the fertilisers, etc are unlikely to harm your tort.
For plants grown to be pretty, who knows? Some members wash the compost from the root ball and then replant in organic, clean compost or soil and then allow the plant to grow on before feeding. Others won't touch it.
I'm not much use really because Joe basically eats untreated garden and is topped up with supermarket greens and weeds from other safe places I know
He has eaten garden centre plants on occasion - when I have bought them and discovered that he has eaten them to the ground - I try to buy inedible or robust enough to survive or resist trampling by a 3kg tort!
For plants grown to be pretty, who knows? Some members wash the compost from the root ball and then replant in organic, clean compost or soil and then allow the plant to grow on before feeding. Others won't touch it.
I'm not much use really because Joe basically eats untreated garden and is topped up with supermarket greens and weeds from other safe places I know
He has eaten garden centre plants on occasion - when I have bought them and discovered that he has eaten them to the ground - I try to buy inedible or robust enough to survive or resist trampling by a 3kg tort!
Sorry to hear your poorly but glad it's worked out well for Ned.
I can understand your anxiety about the trip and leaving Ned, I would feel the same about Lola, but just keep remembering it is all to get him the best help. When they get the results back I expect they will check with you before they treat him, and I know they are the experts but if they say he needs something you aren't sure about, you can always check here to see if anyone has had similar experience of meds and proceedures etc and how their tort reacted, which may vary greatly but could be things to discuss with the vet. I hope it all goes well for you and Ned. Drive carefully and stay positive.
...........and hope you are feeling better soon too. Any chance you could stay close by in a B&B to pop in to see him?
Thanks Lyn. Not feeling great to be honest. Have had a chest infection since start of April that i cant shake off. Had been working away all the time. Then got shingles prob because i already had weakened immune system from antibiotics. Doc said i needed to rest and because i work in the stressful field that is education and had shingles told me to stay off a fortnight. Ive spent the fortnight and the time before that worrying about poor Ned. Im back to work monday and although shingles are on the way out i still have and cant shake the chest infection! Im being sent for blood tests myself next week. Why does everything happen at once!!
@JoesMum @Sara G. We grow the fruit and veg here and eat ourselves. At 30years they havent killed me yet! But i know torts are their systems are different. The only fertiliser ever used would be manure and whatever is in regular compost.
What i have been feeding to date is from the wild and i know is totally untreated but i could have a much broader diet if i knew feeding the homegrown veg greens would be ok.i imagine that lettuces etc and the likes in spring mix would be grown in fertilised soil and yet people feed them to torts? Or do people buy organic spring mix?
What i have been feeding to date is from the wild and i know is totally untreated but i could have a much broader diet if i knew feeding the homegrown veg greens would be ok.i imagine that lettuces etc and the likes in spring mix would be grown in fertilised soil and yet people feed them to torts? Or do people buy organic spring mix?
How? Plants get their nutrients from the soil (and water) and metabolize them as they use them, so how do they become harmful to the consumer?
Whether the fertilizer components such as N P and K come from organic manure or from a synthetic blend...the plant still uses the N P K available to it...it's not metabolized differently.
I can see that always providing ample amounts of nutrient rich plants to a captive animal with limited space to roam - but one that has evolved to eat lesser amounts of a nutrient poor diet and is always on the move can result in a 'too rich' diet, that might cause issues - because it also happens in humans and other domesticated animals. But I don't understand how the nature of the fertilizer is expressed differently once metabolized.
I'm not arguing...I'm just trying to understand what you're saying.
