Vet visit questions

[JoesMum]

As Rue said and I did... if it's not harmful for us to eat, I take it that it's not harmful for a tort to eat. Some will say organic is preferable, but it's a luxury I don't spend on.

The plants that get potted on by tort keepers are the "pretties" like house plants, succulents, roses, pansies, etc that could be grown in anything by a nursery and are not intended for human consumption.

 

[JoesMum]

I'm sure the stuff you grow is fine as you grow things for you to eat

 

[CathyNed]

@Rue @JoesMum Ok well then i should have lots of varied greens for him on his return!

 

[Lyn W]

So glad Ned is having the works - he is in the best place and hopefully he will be well on the way to recovery by the time the vet has finished with him.
Re fertiliser etc I personally wouldn't knowingly feed anything to my tort with any chemicals in them and avoid roadside plants because of fumes etc. I always follow the advice from the forum to repot any shop bought plants and wait several months to grow any chemicals or insecticide sprays out. I have seen it said by another member that you also need to be careful with compost because it could contain plants that are toxic to torts, but I expect your dad would make his own compost so that would be easy to check. It is hard keeping an eye on what plants could have absorbed - I'm sure a few have slipped through the net in the shop bought food I use through the winter but I try to buy organic where possible and avoid a build up in Lola's system. Thank goodness the free weeds are back in the safe places I know of !!

 

[Rue]

You realize that certain pesticide levels in organic produce can be very high? Many 'natural' pesticides used in organic farming are more toxic than some of the synthetics commonly used. The reason some don't show up when residue testing is done is because they're not on the list to be tested for, so you don't hear about them. When they do test for them, the levels can be alarmingly high in some cases. An example of pesticides used in organic farming are various formulations containing copper. Copper is a metal, and is listed as an inorganic pesticide (toxic levels can cause liver damage). Nicotine is another dangerous product - listed as an organic pesticide. So both are 'natural' products, but both can be very toxic and dangerous.

I have nothing against organic produce. Pretty much what we grow in our garden would be considered organic. And I'm certainly in favour of being very careful with chemicals we use and how we use them, but labelling something as organic doesn't guarantee either safety or better quality.

 

[JoesMum]

Neonics are banned by the European Union - for the time being anyway. It's under review with an announcement due January 2017.

CathyNed lives in Ireland, so like for us in the UK, she can have confidence in local produce being clear of those.

 

[CathyNed]

So glad Ned is having the works - he is in the best place and hopefully he will be well on the way to recovery by the time the vet has finished with him.
Re fertiliser etc I personally wouldn't knowingly feed anything to my tort with any chemicals in them and avoid roadside plants because of fumes etc. I always follow the advice from the forum to repot any shop bought plants and wait several months to grow any chemicals or insecticide sprays out. I have seen it said by another member that you also need to be careful with compost because it could contain plants that are toxic to torts, but I expect your dad would make his own compost so that would be easy to check. It is hard keeping an eye on what plants could have absorbed - I'm sure a few have slipped through the net in the shop bought food I use through the winter but I try to buy organic where possible and avoid a build up in Lola's system. Thank goodness the free weeds are back in the safe places I know of !!

Hi Lynn, there is an abundance of wild dandelion, clover, plantain, bindweed that i know have no pesticides in my area. I am way way out in the countryside with fields and fields of wild weeds. I also get my dad to warn me where he is planning to use pesticides and when he does so i know what to avoid.

My dad grows turnips/suede, carrots, kale, various lettuce plants, onions, beetroot, cabbage , cauliflower, potatoes etc in plain soil but puts a layer of compost on top. He doesnt use pesticides or sprays on it just the compost.I potted some seeds myself, in potting compost but now im thinking i shouldnt feed them or i should transplant them into ordinary soil!

 

[JoesMum]

Hi Lynn, there is an abundance of wild dandelion, clover, plantain, bindweed that i know have no pesticides in my area. I am way way out in the countryside with fields and fields of wild weeds. I also get my dad to warn me where he is planning to use pesticides and when he does so i know what to avoid.

My dad grows turnips/suede, carrots, kale, various lettuce plants, onions, beetroot, cabbage , cauliflower, potatoes etc in plain soil but puts a layer of compost on top. He doesnt use pesticides or sprays on it just the compost.I potted some seeds myself, in potting compost but now im thinking i shouldnt feed them or i should transplant them into ordinary soil!

I'm feeling jealous!

 

[CathyNed]

@JoesMum Sometimes I love it....as a kid i certainly did....but sometimes a 15minute drive to the nearest shop isnt always convenient. Its no wonder the vet is 3 hours away!

 

[Lyn W]

I'm feeling jealous!


Hi Lynn, there is an abundance of wild dandelion, clover, plantain, bindweed that i know have no pesticides in my area. I am way way out in the countryside with fields and fields of wild weeds. I also get my dad to warn me where he is planning to use pesticides and when he does so i know what to avoid.

My dad grows turnips/suede, carrots, kale, various lettuce plants, onions, beetroot, cabbage , cauliflower, potatoes etc in plain soil but puts a layer of compost on top. He doesnt use pesticides or sprays on it just the compost.I potted some seeds myself, in potting compost but now im thinking i shouldnt feed them or i should transplant them into ordinary soil.

Me too!
@CathyNed You are lucky to have such variety, I can't answer what you should do as I only follow advice here to the best of my ability . At least you know where your food has come from and what has happened to it en route to Ned. Most of us just have to trust the process of farm to table and do our best to avoid anything harmful. I always give everything a good soak - mainly to hydrate it - but it also washes off any insects and possible parasites even though in the wild torts wouldn't have this luxury!!

 

[Kori5]

You can't take back time and change his care in the petshop which was terrible. The problem with buying tortoises is that you never know how someone started them and even if you do, you feel sorry for them and take them. I think you care these previous years was great and you saved his life. Maybe there has been some damage to his health but that doesn't mean he won't have a long happy life . Yes, he is sick but with an experienced vet and proper diagnosis he can heal. Just do what you've been doing, feed him weeds, give supplements, baths and I'm sure he will be ok . He'll be home before you know it.

 

[martaemha]

Hi Cathy, I was very sorry to hear that the bumps around the jaw that seemed to me like gout were confirmed as uric deposits. Must be painful for him and maybe this is why he had difficulties swallowing his food.
Anyway Ned is in good hands now. I am glad he's got you and that you took him to the best vet possible and that after time spent in the pet shop you took him out of his misery. The day after tomorrow you'll see him again and will know the diagnosis and medical procedures to follow. I am sure you can't wait to see him. Please take care of yourself for Ned! And since you mentioned lack of UVB, whenever the temps exceed 20 degrees please take him out for a walk, it seems that where you live you have perfect tort environment with lots of greens and fresh air. All the best to both of you!

 

[CathyNed]

@martaemha @JoesMum @Yvonne G @Kori5 @Lyn @Rue
Update on Ned.
Rang the vet there and she said for one thing he has a great appetite. Said he is alert and eating very well. Said every time she opens his mouth it is full of food! She said this is a very good sign.
With regards to uric deposits around jaw she seemed to think it wouldnt be painful as if it were he would go off his food and definately wouldnt be as eager to bite everything that comes in front of his face. It is not obstructing his swallow which is good.

Unfortunately he hasnt pooped yet so they havent been able to do a fecal exam. He has pooped for me every day here when he bathes. He does leave it till the last minute though. I change his water every 5 mins when i bathe him so it doesnt get cold and usually just when i say ok this is the last one, he poops as if he knows, and i have to give him another bath!Im not sure how long it takes food to get around his system but i didnt feed him very much on the morning i brought him in as he had a three hour drive ahead and i didnt want to make him sick.Maybe thats the reason or else he is totally stressed at being poked and prodded.

So he is lacking in calcium, iron and protein as far as we can tell so far. He is getting fluids every day to hydrate him and is coming home Saturday now.She said she will go through his after care with me on Saturday. Thats all for now.

I do take him outside any day that it is remotely warm and he grazes away. There arent many good days in the year here in Ireland though and today is one of them unfotunately!Hopefully we will get a nice summer!

 

[Rue]

That is a reassuring update. Eating is always a good sign, especially in animals that stress easily. So if he's eating at the vet clinic, after transport and being in an unfamiliar place, that's very good. I hope he poops soon. The rest can be adjusted with diet.

I hope it's a great day for you on Saturday! Make for a nice road trip back home!

 

[martaemha]

Thank you for the update! It's good news that he has a great appetite!
I think that he just got used to pooping while bathing, but since he is constantly eating, well... all this food will find its way out
He seems to be a strong tort. If he weren't, he would have given up on life long ago at the pet shop. I am sure that with the after care recommendations you will overcome his deficiencies.
Please let us know how he is doing once you return together from the vet.
I wish you the most beautiful of summers.

 

[JoesMum]

Thanks for the update. It sounds like he is progressing well

 

[Lyn W]

That is great news, I'm sure with your care and dedication you'll soon have Ned as fit as a fiddle!

 

[CathyNed]

@Yvonne G @Sara G. @Kori5 @Lyn W @JoesMum @martaemha @Rue
Update on Ned:
Ned has shed/is in the process of shedding his tough dry skin with the help of hydration.

His edema hasnt gone down. He is still swollen around neck, where his neck joins front paws and also around his tail.vet thinks the edema is caused by low blood protein but is unsure why he isnt absorbing protein properly. Could be problem with kidney/liver. She said usually kidney probs dont show up in blood unless at a very bad stage. He is not showing very bad levels with regards kidneys. He is still recieving antibiotics, hydration and now diahorretics.

He still hasnt pooped so no fecal test.He is alert and eating well but they are also now tube feeding him more fibre in hopes he will poop.

Vet said she doesnt want to send him home tomorrow as she feels he hasnt improved enough and she hasnt gotten the swelling down or pinpointed the problem. She feels it would be like sending him home with only half a treatment.She wants me to leave him till next week and see how he is progressing.

I go back to work next week and was hoping to have him home tomorrow but i realise it is in his best interest to stay there and continue any treatment he needs. If i lived closer I could go there and take him home tomorrow till Monday but it just isnt practical to get him home and back there.

He will be staying with her into next week anyway and hopefully she can find out more and give him what he needs. Trying to stay hopeful and lookibg forward to having him back home!

 

[CathyNed]

@dmmj @Tom @Pearly
Just wondering if either of you have come across these symptoms

 

[dmmj]

I've never had that with any of my tortoises but I have seen it many many times in life with other people and on the forum. it's almost always a problem with the kidneys that can be something simple as an infection all the way to kidney failure.the only way to tell is a blood test