Why do reptiles need UVB?

[Meg90]

To tell anyone that UVB is not necessary, and not include a disclaimer, I think is damaging. There is no proof that its healthy. So why would anyone advocate following a care regiment that lacks UVB?

If someone wants to say its not necessary, lets hear some research and information that backs that claim up.

My support for torts needing it are the studies done by exo terra and mega ray respectively, about the content of UVB and non UVB lighting.

 

[fifthdawn]

I really hope this don't turner into a huge argument between members. The intention of this thread wasn't to argue over whether reptiles need UV.

Its more on why reptiles do while others don't with emphasis on others My friend keeps hamsters without UVB. My other friends keep paretkeets without UVB. The support usually for mammals seem to be because of their diet whether than how their body functions. But if this was the case, then reptiles should be able to do so through diet as well.

Since there seems to be huge debate over diet, then I'm thinking maybe theres more to diet, maybe theres a difference in the physiology of these animals. This is what I'm really hoping to get information on. Anyone with information on this would be great for everyone who reads this and keeps other animals as well.

 

[-EJ]

Sorry... I only have anecdotal evidence.

Again... Artificial UVB is relatively new. I've got references of keeping herps dating back over 100 years.

As mentioned... I've kept tortoises without UVB for over 10 years. I do a seperate post on that.

you're references... check how long they've been on the market.

When I mentioned Vitalite... 70s.

You seem to keep missing the point... UVB is not necessary but it is beneficial.

I don't know how what you are posting can be considered constructive, or even debate. If its no concern of mine how you keep your tortoises, then its no concern of anyone, and WHY post your care practices on a public forum?

To tell anyone that UVB is not necessary, and not include a disclaimer, I think is damaging. You have no proof that its healthy. So why would you advocate anyone else following your ways?

If you say its not necessary, lets hear some research and information that backs you up. My support for needing it are the studies done by exo terra and mega ray respectively about the content of UVB and non UVB lighting.

 

[mikekarsey]

Hey guys,
Aside from the need for a regular day night cycle, some reptiles need very specific kinds of light i.e. UV light. Similar to the requirement for heat, the requirement for UV light is vital for optimal health of the species who require UV wave lengths. Even for those reptiles that do not have a requirement for UV light, the provision of a regular day-night cycle is necessary. Without a regular cycle of light and dark, animals will experience stress. Additionally, if breeding is a goal, mimicking the changes in the light-dark cycle that would naturally occur as the seasons change may be necessary to induce reptiles to breed.

 

[Kayti]

I totally agree with Meg in this thread. I've seen so much evidence for UVB, and EJ is the first person I've ever heard speak against it. I'm not saying you shouldn't tell people what you've learned through your personal experience, but I think in the case of beginning herp keepers it might be necessary for you to add a disclaimer to you remarks. What if someone read what you say about lamps, and decided they could save a few bucks and just keep their torts in the dark? They might not know what you do otherwise that gives you good results, and their animal would suffer. Additionally, since you've admitted that your evidence is purely anecdotal, it might be better to introduce your ideas as theories, rather than facts.
That said, I am obviously the novice in this area. And I do enjoy reading a different opinion and I think that's necessary for a good forum.

Can carnivores live without protein and be fed soy? Humans metabolize it the same, but would wolves?

This jumped out at me because I just had this argument with a bunch of vegans. There's this whole movement now within veganism to force your pets to be vegan, and it's making me SO MAD. I can be a healthy vegan because I am an omnivore. There have been successes with dogs on vegan diets because they are also omnivores. But cats, and snakes, and other carnivores CANNOT be vegan. It's so idiotic to expect an animal with a completely different digestive system to be able to metabolize food the way humans do. Some people just see people as the standard- like, people are so awesome and complicated or whatever, so any diet that can keep us going should be more than enough for another animal. WRONG.
I used to work in a cat shelter, and we'd get cats in all the time with all kinds of problems (mainly blindness) that could be linked to dietary deficiencies. Carnivores have much stricter dietary needs than omnivores.

Metabolism is much more complicated than most people realize. I think it's safest to mimic the environment that that specific metabolism evolved in.

 

[-EJ]

Please do not take my words out of context. I'm not against the use of UVB for tortoises. If you read the post you will see that I was one of the first to advocat it for tortoises and was met with resistance.

I'm saying that it is not a necessity... pretty simple.

I dropped the lamps because it did save me a few bucks and the animals are no worse for the ware.

I totally agree with Meg in this thread. I've seen so much evidence for UVB, and EJ is the first person I've ever heard speak against it. I'm not saying you shouldn't tell people what you've learned through your personal experience, but I think in the case of beginning herp keepers it might be necessary for you to add a disclaimer to you remarks. What if someone read what you say about lamps, and decided they could save a few bucks and just keep their torts in the dark? They might not know what you do otherwise that gives you good results, and their animal would suffer. Additionally, since you've admitted that your evidence is purely anecdotal, it might be better to introduce your ideas as theories, rather than facts.
That said, I am obviously the novice in this area. And I do enjoy reading a different opinion and I think that's necessary for a good forum.

Can carnivores live without protein and be fed soy? Humans metabolize it the same, but would wolves?

This jumped out at me because I just had this argument with a bunch of vegans. There's this whole movement now within veganism to force your pets to be vegan, and it's making me SO MAD. I can be a healthy vegan because I am an omnivore. There have been successes with dogs on vegan diets because they are also omnivores. But cats, and snakes, and other carnivores CANNOT be vegan. It's so idiotic to expect an animal with a completely different digestive system to be able to metabolize food the way humans do. Some people just see people as the standard- like, people are so awesome and complicated or whatever, so any diet that can keep us going should be more than enough for another animal. WRONG.
I used to work in a cat shelter, and we'd get cats in all the time with all kinds of problems (mainly blindness) that could be linked to dietary deficiencies. Carnivores have much stricter dietary needs than omnivores.

Metabolism is much more complicated than most people realize. I think it's safest to mimic the environment that that specific metabolism evolved in.

 

[Kadaan]

Most of these UVB discussions are argued in black and white, even though I don't think anyone here is really that convicted.

Does a reptile NEED a UVB light to be perfectly healthy in captivity? No.
Does that mean that NOT having a UVB light will make your animals sick from lack of D3? No.

I think everyone agrees that reptiles need D3, and a UVB light to help them metabolize it is the easiest way (besides having an outdoor habitat) to ensure your reptile gets enough without overdosing. Some people prefer UVB with little to no dietary supplementation, others prefer dietary supplementation with little to no direct UVB exposure.

As I said in my previous post in this thread; I believe UVB is easier than supplementation as it lets the reptile regulate itself and should be recommended/encouraged to new owners. But as EJ has states several times in this thread (and others): UVB lighting isn't the ONLY way to provide D3 to rear a healthy animal.