Alarming behavior in hatchling

[Mel from hell]

Thank you so much for all your help. I am going to do exactly what you say and will update on any changes.
I do not have any liquid vitamins, where can I buy this?

Health food store, Whole Foods or anywhere the pseudo rich deem worthy to shop. Ralph’s, etc.
super supplements though, for SUREST h

 

[Tom]

Yes. I agree. Don’t watch n See.
Since he was seemingly worse since the aloe ingestion, he may b allergic. Could b liver problems, but that’s 200$ bucks n stress, to deduce. Or, allergic to his bedding or aloe. Could b an external parasite, too. Wet ur finger n lightly rub the area best u can. Get some skin cells. Wipe it on a magnifier. Look at under a bright bulb of any sort. If it’s moving? Then, that’s the issue. But I kinda feel it’s an allergic reaction, for him to fall so fast. It sounds like a situational issue. Improper lighting, and so on while great husbandry advice, I? Read it like it’s pretty sudden n dramatic, so again I think it’s his body rejecting something he ate or walked in, etc. I saw a healthy dog die once, after eating 4, altoid mints.A crazy, undiagnosable reaction. It can b even the smallest of something he’s just allergic to.
Perhaps, the Aloe. I personally, never feed aloe. Why? Just my gut. I prefer to use it topically

Don’t soak him, till you’ve tried the following:
Lightly moisten a towel. Put him on that, in his tank. Keep humidity, In his space n make it very warm, his air. Boil a chamomile tea bag. Cool. Leave enough volume to get fluid out of.
Apply to his face. If he pulls in,squeeze some
Over his face n b careful he does not choke. Hold him at a slight, head down posture if ur worried cause he’s pretty small squeeze some onto all fleshy areas, too for good measure. Do this several times a day. Give him like, 3 sm drops of liquid vitamins if u have access. Wait a few hours. No improvement?
Bust open a vitamin E gel tablet. Lightly!
Again, put it on all flesh u can. Don’t get too much in his eyes if u can help it. Wait maybe 6 hours or so. No calming down? Mix calamine to 1 part water. Put some lightly on neck n exposed flesh like before. This could b a histamine reaction to an allergen. So it may, have to “ wear” off. But he’s losing time. Please, try some of these topical things. It may b that simple.
Getting nutrients of Any sort in him is a BIG, deal here as well. Nourish him so he can stay alive, TO fight this. Do u have a cat? If he’s getting worse, put a TINY amount of Canned cat food in his mouth n rub under his neck till he swallows it. You have nothing to lose here, by the sound of ur post. So go for it. I have personally tried, every thing I’ve written n had some very good results. You can also, try Glycerin gel, too if he’s still itching. I am very anxious for him to beat this. He could just have failure to thrive but I hope not. Please let us know what’s happening.
It sounds like ur doing everything outside of this event, perfectly. Please don’t get discouraged, ok? It’s not your fault. You’re asking for help from the best place possible.

Is this post a joke? If its not a joke and you really do mean well, then you have the wrong idea about a lot of stuff here. Tortoises and other wild animals don't get allergies. Any sort of weakness like that would get them picked off by a predator or conspecific. Allergies are a problem for humans and domestic animals.

Telling the person not to soak is terrible advice, and all the goop you are recommending she apply does nothing and certainly doesn't address this tortoises fundamental problem.

 

[Yvonne G]

I just got the seeds to plant, I didn’t want to plant anything already grown cuz I wouldn’t know for sure if it was sprayed with pesticides or not. I did put him on a warm wet microfiber cloth and set it where he has been sleeping.
I see you are an admin, what light/brand would you recommend? My husband has t5’s on hand, would that be acceptable?

Yes. I use T5 UVB lights

 

[SweetKaykes]

Yes. I use T5 UVB lights

Perfect. Thank you so much.

 

[SweetKaykes]

Update!
So I traded out the coil for the t5. I left him alone for about 4 hours on a warm and wet microfiber cloth. When I came back, he had only moved a couple inches and was still on the cloth, but he had pooped and it looked normal. He also seems to be much less lethargic! He stayed awake during his bath and walked around his home looking for a place to nap. He still hasn’t eaten, but I’m just ecstatic to see his health moving in a positive direction!
However I did notice little bubbles coming out of his nose, what could cause this?

 

[Tom]

However I did notice little bubbles coming out of his nose, what could cause this?

That is usually the result of cool night temps. There is no way to maintain the correct temps in an open tub, unless the entire room is kept at 80 degrees at tortoise level all the time. I say the following to be informative. Don't want it to seem mean or insulting. Just spelling it out: A low sided open topped tub on the floor, is about the worst way to house a baby tropical tortoise. Its near impossible to maintain the correct temperatures and humidity down on the floor and with no sides to hold in the heat and humidity, and its colder down there. It is very obvious that your care tremendously and are doing everything humanly possible to help this baby. I'm just sorry that there is still so much bad tortoise info out in the world to confuse new keepers who have the best of intentions like you.

A vet will likely want to inject the baby with vitamins and Baytril, both of which are likely to overwhelm the little baby's already taxed-to-capacity systems. The best cure for this baby is warm temps day and night, and monsoon style humidity and hydration. Shoot for no lower than 85 in the coolest part of the enclosure day or night, and let ambient creep into the 90s during the day. I don't know how you'd accomplish this in your current set up.

I've been holding off, but I think its time to show you this one based on your symptoms and the source of your baby. Some of them pull through, so don't mistake any of this for hopelessness. Just want you to have more info, so you'll better understand what's going on and you can make informed decisions.
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/hatchling-failure-syndrome.23493/

As usual, all your questions are welcome. I hope we can help.

 

[SweetKaykes]

That is usually the result of cool night temps. There is no way to maintain the correct temps in an open tub, unless the entire room is kept at 80 degrees at tortoise level all the time. I say the following to be informative. Don't want it to seem mean or insulting. Just spelling it out: A low sided open topped tub on the floor, is about the worst way to house a baby tropical tortoise. Its near impossible to maintain the correct temperatures and humidity down on the floor and with no sides to hold in the heat and humidity, and its colder down there. It is very obvious that your care tremendously and are doing everything humanly possible to help this baby. I'm just sorry that there is still so much bad tortoise info out in the world to confuse new keepers who have the best of intentions like you.

A vet will likely want to inject the baby with vitamins and Baytril, both of which are likely to overwhelm the little baby's already taxed-to-capacity systems. The best cure for this baby is warm temps day and night, and monsoon style humidity and hydration. Shoot for no lower than 85 in the coolest part of the enclosure day or night, and let ambient creep into the 90s during the day. I don't know how you'd accomplish this in your current set up.

I've been holding off, but I think its time to show you this one based on your symptoms and the source of your baby. Some of them pull through, so don't mistake any of this for hopelessness. Just want you to have more info, so you'll better understand what's going on and you can make informed decisions.
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/hatchling-failure-syndrome.23493/

As usual, all your questions are welcome. I hope we can help.

Thank you for sharing this thread with me. It definitely does give me something to think about. But if this is the case, I hope he can pull through like yours did.

Could making his home “enclosed” be as simple as building a wooden frame around his area and topping it with acrylic glass?

I do have the temp and humidity reader on the floor next to him so the readings should be accurate for what it is in his area. But if I can simply build something over where he is right now and it could help him I am more than willing to make the changes.
I am also planning on taking Yvonne’s advice and am calling around organic plant stores and finding plants on the list of things he can eat. Making sure, of course, that they have never been sprayed with anything.
Do you have any advice on this? Plants that work better than others?

 

[Tom]

Thank you for sharing this thread with me. It definitely does give me something to think about. But if this is the case, I hope he can pull through like yours did.

Could making his home “enclosed” be as simple as building a wooden frame around his area and topping it with acrylic glass?

I do have the temp and humidity reader on the floor next to him so the readings should be accurate for what it is in his area. But if I can simply build something over where he is right now and it could help him I am more than willing to make the changes.
I am also planning on taking Yvonne’s advice and am calling around organic plant stores and finding plants on the list of things he can eat. Making sure, of course, that they have never been sprayed with anything.
Do you have any advice on this? Plants that work better than others?

I would build a platform or stand and get the enclosure off the floor. Then, your plexi mounted to a wood frame would work, or a portable greenhouse could work too.

I've been looking for "organically grown decorative plants" and coming up empty. I think CA regs require the big nurseries to use those horrible systemic pesticides to protect our extensive ag industries here. Maybe WA is different? It not sprays that you have to worry about, it systemic pesticides in the growing soil. These systemics can last over a year. You can find veggies intended for human consumption without all the chemicals, but I don't want grocery store veggies. I want plants. Good luck to you in your search for "clean" plants.

 

[SweetKaykes]

I would build a platform or stand and get the enclosure off the floor. Then, your plexi mounted to a wood frame would work, or a portable greenhouse could work too.

I've been looking for "organically grown decorative plants" and coming up empty. I think CA regs require the big nurseries to use those horrible systemic pesticides to protect our extensive ag industries here. Maybe WA is different? It not sprays that you have to worry about, it systemic pesticides in the growing soil. These systemics can last over a year. You can find veggies intended for human consumption without all the chemicals, but I don't want grocery store veggies. I want plants. Good luck to you in your search for "clean" plants.

I will work on this thank you so much for all your help.

 

[kazjimmy]

Healthy babies don't scratch at faces all the time and usually don't fall asleep in the soak. Leaving things alone is not the answer and could make things worse. Until we know the set up is correct it's not wise to tell someone to just sit back and wait.

New hatchling does scratch their face a lot, especially when you soak them. If I read this thread correctly, his baby Tortoise was not active for one day or less then 24 hours. He mention about the sleeping during soak but you do not wake up a tortoise and soak them immediately. He makes some new owner mistake but won’t cuz a big problem. About his equipment I would assume he have the decent set up base on the TEM&HUM.

I ask him leave the new hatchling alone because I don’t want him to handling the tortoise too much. But keep watching him.
Sometimes less is more.

 

[Cheryl Hills]

New hatchling does scratch their face a lot, especially when you soak them. If I read this thread correctly, his baby Tortoise was not active for one day or less then 24 hours. He mention about the sleeping during soak but you do not wake up a tortoise and soak them immediately. He makes some new owner mistake but won’t cuz a big problem. About his equipment I would assume he have the decent set up base on the TEM&HUM.

I ask him leave the new hatchling alone because I don’t want him to handling the tortoise too much. But keep watching him.
Sometimes less is more.

Mine don’t! And yes, you do soak them when they first wake. This warms them up and stimulates hunger!

 

[kazjimmy]

Mine don’t! And yes, you do soak them when they first wake. This warms them up and stimulates hunger!

Again baby tortoise scratch their face a lot. If yours never did, I don’t wanna debate with you. One of the mistake new owner did is soak the baby while they sleep. You can wake up your tortoise and soak them but you do not soak them while they still asleep. It’s a common sense no need to argue.

 

[Tom]

I raise 100s of hatchlings of multiple species every year. None of them scratch their faces. I soak them anytime of day that is convenient for me with my erratic and ever changing work schedule.

 

[daniellenc]

No face scratching here either when mine was little. Also, once you pick a tort up they’re awake. Soaking and sleeping don’t mix. Mine frantically tried to escape at first.

 

[Cheryl Hills]

Again baby tortoise scratch their face a lot. If yours never did, I don’t wanna debate with you. One of the mistake new owner did is soak the baby while they sleep. You can wake up your tortoise and soak them but you do not soak them while they still asleep. It’s a common sense no need to argue.

This baby we are talking about fell to sleep while soaking. It was not soaked while it was sleeping!

 

[wellington]

Again baby tortoise scratch their face a lot. If yours never did, I don’t wanna debate with you. One of the mistake new owner did is soak the baby while they sleep. You can wake up your tortoise and soak them but you do not soak them while they still asleep. It’s a common sense no need to argue.

I'm sorry but you need to read the op thread again. The baby's face scratching got worse and they didn't soak a sleeping baby it fell asleep in the soak. Baby's do not scratch their faces a lot. Some never some occasional. Telling someone to just leave it alone that has some obvious things needing to be changed is not good advice. Handling a baby will not hurt the baby. It makes them easier to handle and examine when larger should it be needed.

 

[kazjimmy]

I raise 100s of hatchlings of multiple species every year. None of them scratch their faces. I soak them anytime of day that is convenient for me with my erratic and ever changing work schedule.

Tomorrow when I soak them I will take some pictures for all of you that said never see a baby tortoise scratch their face.

 

[Bee62]

Update!
So I traded out the coil for the t5. I left him alone for about 4 hours on a warm and wet microfiber cloth. When I came back, he had only moved a couple inches and was still on the cloth, but he had pooped and it looked normal. He also seems to be much less lethargic! He stayed awake during his bath and walked around his home looking for a place to nap. He still hasn’t eaten, but I’m just ecstatic to see his health moving in a positive direction!
However I did notice little bubbles coming out of his nose, what could cause this?

Bubbles out of the nose can be the beginning of a respiration infect. Please keep your baby warm day and night. Night temps never less than 80 F. Keep the enclosure humid and warm and close it with a top as soon as possible. On the floor there is always a cold draft. Place the eclosure of your baby on a table or something like that but please not on the floor.
Go on with long warm soaks. They are beneficial for the health of your baby.

 

[daniellenc]

Tomorrow when I soak them I will take some pictures for all of you that said never see a baby tortoise scratch their face.

If they do it’s do to infection, irritation, or systemic disease and not normal behavior.

 

[Yvonne G]

He's not really scratching his face, he's trying to wipe his eyes.