Bob's Stone

[Maggie Cummings]

Bob passed a stone as big as a golf ball. He drinks daily and pees daily so where did this come from? And what do I do to make sure this does not form again?

Now, I am going to try and post the pictures. But you all know about my computer troubles, well, after paying money to fix the laptop, it blew the mother board 2 days later and my desk top needs a Linux expert. So I have this Google Chromebook, and it does not do pictures. So I've downloaded some programs and I am going to see if I can post a pix on the forum, I just recently figured out how to send them to Yvonne. So if that does not work, you have a thread without my usual pictures.....

 

[Maggie Cummings]

Well, this is what I get from the forum....
"The following error occurred
The uploaded file does not have an allowed extension......."

anybody know what that means?

 

[ascott]

Bob passed a stone as big as a golf ball. He drinks daily and pees daily so where did this come from? And what do I do to make sure this does not form again?

Now, I am going to try and post the pictures. But you all know about my computer troubles, well, after paying money to fix the laptop, it blew the mother board 2 days later and my desk top needs a Linux expert. So I have this Google Chromebook, and it does not do pictures. So I've downloaded some programs and I am going to see if I can post a pix on the forum, I just recently figured out how to send them to Yvonne. So if that does not work, you have a thread without my usual pictures.....

What supplemental food do you offer him on a regular basis Maggie? I bet that is more of a factor than simply hydration....also, do you offer that big ole boy a few heads of romaine a few times a week when the warm weather/tortoise season is in force in your part of the world????

 

[ascott]

Bob passed a stone as big as a golf ball. He drinks daily and pees daily so where did this come from? And what do I do to make sure this does not form again?

Now, I am going to try and post the pictures. But you all know about my computer troubles, well, after paying money to fix the laptop, it blew the mother board 2 days later and my desk top needs a Linux expert. So I have this Google Chromebook, and it does not do pictures. So I've downloaded some programs and I am going to see if I can post a pix on the forum, I just recently figured out how to send them to Yvonne. So if that does not work, you have a thread without my usual pictures.....

Also, I am basing my inquiry on the fact that this species of tortoise is designed internally very much like other desert tortoise species/arid species....

 

[Yvonne G]

Bob's stone (or hard urates)

 

[Maggie Cummings]

Thanks Yvonne...you're great to do that for me.

Angela,
Never thought of the food side of things. Every morning Bob gets produce collected for him weekly by the local Market of Choice. It's mostly red leaf and some green leaf lettuce. So I supplement with grass I cut from the empty lot next door, I collect dandelions daily.
I buy mustard greens, turnip greens, or collards or something else. Never Romaine, just never thought about that stuff. Then I give him all the blossoms or weeds or leaves I collect for him. In the late afternoon, he gets Mazuri, now I'm making it really soggy for the hydration but he still eats all of it. And some watermelon or strawberries as a treat.
He mostly eats stuff I collect for him. I get huge bags of dandelions here (dandelions should be the state flower). At this time of year, I just walk the neighborhood a couple blocks is all and I have several bags of dandelions.
I work hard to give him as natural a diet as I can. His grass is coming up now, so he grazes too. Why the Romaine? I do give him iceburg every so often for the moisture. He free feeds hay also.
So what do you think? Am I doing ok? What should I do to make it better? I spend a good part of the day collecting stuff for him to eat, if I need to do something else, I want to know, because with my knee and walking with a cane, it's not exactly easy, walking around collecting all that stuff.
My neighbors tell me there won't be any dandelions in our area soon, the way I collect them.

And if you'll remember, Queenie passed a big stone like that a couple of months ago. But they both have big water dishes, clean water daily, and Bob drinks daily, Queenie would rather get under her dish and tip it over. She does it every time, so every once in a while I soak her in the house. I started doing that more often after her stone....and I stopped feeding her collards and kale.
Guess that's it, what do you think? @ascott

 

[wellington]

Maybe @tortadise will have some ideas about what may be causing the stones/urates and what you can do different. Also, maybe @jaizei can help you with your computer picture posting.
Good luck with both

 

[Yvonne G]

I don't know if you can get to the "inbox" section here, but I'm sending you a private conversation. Let me know if you can get it.

 

[tortadise]

This is just a theory of mine. But my big guys do the same thing. Especially around winter and early spring. They always have lots of access to water. But really I think it has to do with that they naturally aren't as active in the wild as we keep them in captivity. For almost 8-9 months out of the year sulcatas are inactive in the wild. They're only active during the rainy season. So I'd speculate perhaps when we keep them so warm and up awake, feeding, and moving about they can't really handle all the activity and don't get enough moisture and hydration (even though it's provided) all the big ones I have do this. Even rescues. Diet I don't believe has much to point a finger at here. Mine are strictly on a grass diet with the occasional red tip, or green head here and there during the coldest months. But like now and about 2 months prior the grass started growing so they only get that. No supplements whatsoever.

Is the urate crushable or is it crystalline and very hard?

 

[Maggie Cummings]

It's hard as a rock. Thanks everyone for your help here. You all know how I feel about Bob, and I'm worried....

And when he pushed out that rock, he did it dry. No urine or water just that rock. He did urinate twice that day, but that rock came out dry, with loud grunting....

 

[Tom]

But really I think it has to do with that they naturally aren't as active in the wild as we keep them in captivity. For almost 8-9 months out of the year sulcatas are inactive in the wild. They're only active during the rainy season.

According to Tomas, this is not the case. They are active, just not above ground. Their tunnels and burrow in the wild can be over 60 meters long and have multiple entrances and intersections.

 

[wellington]

According to Tomas, this is not the case. They are active, just not above ground. Their tunnels and burrow in the wild can be over 60 meters long and have multiple entrances and intersections.

Possibly in captivity they are being kept too warm and not nearly as hydrated as a cooler underground burrow that they are constantly urinating in, causing a higher humidity then most provide for the larger adults? Just a guess I'm throwing out here.

 

[Tom]

Possibly in captivity they are being kept too warm and not nearly as hydrated as a cooler underground burrow that they are constantly urinating in, causing a higher humidity then most provide for the larger adults? Just a guess I'm throwing out here.

I think most people keep them too cool, although Maggie keeps Bob quite warm and reasonably humid too.

The burrow temps in the wild are simply not known. Based on what happens at my place in summer, with temps similar to their winter, I would guess burrow temps to be around 80 or higher.

Anyone in Phoenix ever checked burrow temps in summer? Phoenix summers are similar to the weather over in sulcata territory most of the year. If burrow temps are 80 in summer at my place, I'd guess they'd be warmer in Phoenix with the hotter nights.

 

[leigti]

Okay Maggie, these are not the type of Bob pictures we are used to :-( is he doing fine now?

 

[Moozillion]

Bob's stone (or hard urates)

OH.MY!!!! Poor Bob!!!
...and poor Bob's mom!!!

 

[Maggie Cummings]

Okay Maggie, these are not the type of Bob pictures we are used to :-( is he doing fine now?

He seems to be doing ok. He's back to his normal trouble causing self. Now he's trying to destroy a tree that has been in his pen for 6 years or more. Why try to kill it now when it's finally growing good, the jerk.

 

[leigti]

He seems to be doing ok. He's back to his normal trouble causing self. Now he's trying to destroy a tree that has been in his pen for 6 years or more. Why try to kill it now when it's finally growing good, the jerk.

Oh good, he's back to normal

 

[Carol S]

Poor Bob, passing that huge stone must of been very painful.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

Poor Bob, passing that huge stone must of been very painful.

He grunted very loud several times. Scared and worried me...at one point he just laid his head on the floor, and that scared the hell outa me. I hope we're past it now...

 

[tortadise]

According to Tomas, this is not the case. They are active, just not above ground. Their tunnels and burrow in the wild can be over 60 meters long and have multiple entrances and intersections.

Completely agree. We talked about this quite a bit when he was here few months back. I suppose it came off odd. I'm definitely not saying that they hibernate and or are completely inactive at all during the dry season. But certainly a lot less active during those periods. I know my region is completely different from south Cali or Arizona. But one huge burrow I had before adopting the huge male out and covering up was quite cool in summer and very very humid.