Kamp Kenan

Cathie G

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Don't get me wrong not taking up for Kamp Keenan. I go t a lot of reptile shows. I watch people handle animals at one booth and move on to another with no hand washing in between. This could be the reason for a sick animal picked up at a show. I will not let people handle my animals at my house or anywhere else without washing their hands first. Most vendors don't care. I was at the show here in Conroe Texas this past weekend and a vender had a net put up so people couldn't openly handle his animals without hand sanitizer first. He also passed out gloves. That tells me he's trying to keep healthy animals for sell.
Yes.
 

jcase

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I got ripped into a year ago on facebook by other "big names" "pros" and "old timers" when i publicly questioned his husbandry and biosecurity practices. "You dont know what its like to keep a lot of animals" ffs I had 1000+ reptiles at once in racks. I isolated by grouping, and washed hands and tools between each.
 

jcase

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We honestly do not have a 100% guaranteed disgnosis yet. Basically they stated they are CONFIDENT its that, but until we can afford the biopsies, we are going with the assumption that it is. My husband did finally hear back from Kenan, who states he is having biopsies done. But we also spoke with a guy here on the forums, I BELIEVE its Mastershake just based on reading around here. But he said based on the pictures I sent him, he was pretty confident too. Yellow spots/lumps, peeling skin, missing claws. Plus vet found multiple signs of sepsis, like red lines and stuff on the shell of the one that we ended up euthanizing. Hopefully we can get a good spot here soon and afford to biopsy it. But the guy we currently have left, his larger spots have been like, part of his really bad peeling skin and have come off.
My son is a nurse, I know how hard ya'll work. Thank you for everything you do.

If you want to let me know the cost of the biopsy, (given i think they need to put the animal down to actually do the PCR test), I can probably cover the cost for you.

I'm absolutely sick of how breeders are behaving with AW and similar diseases. It is like they think, if we dont talk about it, it will go away.
 

jeannettep

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I got ripped into a year ago on facebook by other "big names" "pros" and "old timers" when i publicly questioned his husbandry and biosecurity practices. "You dont know what its like to keep a lot of animals" ffs I had 1000+ reptiles at once in racks. I isolated by grouping, and washed hands and tools between each.
If they can't be sanitary, they should not be managing that many. Its hire help or downsize. Good for you to speak up! We manage a lot of various animals, on a ranch. Space is important for everyone. Yes I'd love to max the pastures with cattle. But I also know doing so causes a lot of issues and painful, expensive decisions. So I only maintain 75% capacity. This helps with sanitary conditions, pastures in a hard drought that are able to manage thru and bounce back. The financial side is that I didn't have to spend any money on feed, nor was I forced to sell any cattle. I still have plenty of grass, Thank goodness! Good management practices with tortoises, chickens, birds, wild animals, rodents, etc. Which reminds me I need to go to Taco Bell and get more mild sauce. Mice love it! All living creatures can have diseases and when people overload their area with too many and not enough space between them, it can cause diseases to jump from one species to another. That also means we have to manage the wild population as well... Because I manage birds, I've been tracking bird flu since the 90s and have a page in my own handbook for biosecurity. Now that it is across the US, everyone here at the ranch may think I take biosecurity too far, but I don't think anyone can take cleanliness too far. This disease I'm unfamiliar with, but I'm going to spend time reading more and very thankful that I got my tortoises from reputable people! Those familiar with this bacteria, is this so far an exotic trade disease or has it crossed to or from the wild population? If this crosses over to wild lizards or geckos, could be a massive problem of spreading. Sorry I get off on a tangent because it's been so hard to see people suffer from animal overload on land and seeing the result.
 

jcase

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If they can't be sanitary, they should not be managing that many. Its hire help or downsize. Good for you to speak up! We manage a lot of various animals, on a ranch. Space is important for everyone. Yes I'd love to max the pastures with cattle. But I also know doing so causes a lot of issues and painful, expensive decisions. So I only maintain 75% capacity. This helps with sanitary conditions, pastures in a hard drought that are able to manage thru and bounce back. The financial side is that I didn't have to spend any money on feed, nor was I forced to sell any cattle. I still have plenty of grass, Thank goodness! Good management practices with tortoises, chickens, birds, wild animals, rodents, etc. Which reminds me I need to go to Taco Bell and get more mild sauce. Mice love it! All living creatures can have diseases and when people overload their area with too many and not enough space between them, it can cause diseases to jump from one species to another. That also means we have to manage the wild population as well... Because I manage birds, I've been tracking bird flu since the 90s and have a page in my own handbook for biosecurity. Now that it is across the US, everyone here at the ranch may think I take biosecurity too far, but I don't think anyone can take cleanliness too far. This disease I'm unfamiliar with, but I'm going to spend time reading more and very thankful that I got my tortoises from reputable people! Those familiar with this bacteria, is this so far an exotic trade disease or has it crossed to or from the wild population? If this crosses over to wild lizards or geckos, could be a massive problem of spreading. Sorry I get off on a tangent because it's been so hard to see people suffer from animal overload on land and seeing the result.
To the best of my knowledge, and im not the expert here at all, it was first identified in Australia. It has been found in reptiles, and birds. It has been identified in wild gopher tortoises ( see https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34780647/) and I'm told it has also been identified or suspected in wild desert tortoises.

Biosecurity isn't hard. Separate enclosures, nitrile gloves, sterilization, surgical scrub and moving from longest kept healthy individual to newest arrival. It only gets too hard when you go too far into animal hoarding that you can no longer properly care for them.

Unfortunately, I think a lot of youtuber animal keepers reach that point. New animals == views.
 

mark1

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if i remember correctly , the only place it's been found on birds is their feet ........ it is known austwickia does not grow/do well in a lab at 37 centigrade , it does better at 27 centigrade ...... i don't believe a bird has ever been found to have an acute or fatal case of austwickia ? i would guess it is an adaption/evolution of dermatophilaceae bacteria (rain rot , mud fever) to live in ectotherms.......
 

jeannettep

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if i remember correctly , the only place it's been found on birds is their feet ........ it is known austwickia does not grow/do well in a lab at 37 centigrade , it does better at 27 centigrade ...... i don't believe a bird has ever been found to have an acute or fatal case of austwickia ? i would guess it is an adaption/evolution of dermatophilaceae bacteria (rain rot , mud fever) to live in ectotherms.......
It's really sad. I hope progress can be made quickly to get this under control.
 

ZEROPILOT

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I got ripped into a year ago on facebook by other "big names" "pros" and "old timers" when i publicly questioned his husbandry and biosecurity practices. "You dont know what its like to keep a lot of animals" ffs I had 1000+ reptiles at once in racks. I isolated by grouping, and washed hands and tools between each.
That's a shame. But just from the tone of the replies, you clearly hit a nerve.
Most breeders are seriously compromised right now.
Your forward thinking could've helped them.
 

cdmay

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I must admit that I've never even heard of this disease before reading this thread. Sounds scary indeed but Mark1 does make a good point in that on the Internet such things can get exaggerated. Before you know it everyone is seeing the disease everywhere. Not downplaying the threat at all mind you and caution should ALWAYS be exercised when purchasing animals.

As for Kenan...he is YouTube entertainer and not a responsible reptile keeper. I doubt that any reputable, or long term keepers take him seriously, let alone have any respect for him. I've seen enough of his videos in which he obtains new (he's always getting 'new' stock it seems) animals that he simply dumps in with other resident animals.
Do not confuse YouTube personality/popularity with knowledgeable/responsible reptile husbandry.
 

jcase

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I must admit that I've never even heard of this disease before reading this thread. Sounds scary indeed but Mark1 does make a good point in that on the Internet such things can get exaggerated. Before you know it everyone is seeing the disease everywhere.
Considering only scientifically confirmed (PCR) cases, we have it coast to coast in captivity and at least in the wild in some states.

A zoo veterinarian i recently spoke to suspects it is being misdiagnosed as herpes in some cases as well.

Paranoia is a protective respond, and sometimes it is warranted.
 

Cathie G

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Considering only scientifically confirmed (PCR) cases, we have it coast to coast in captivity and at least in the wild in some states.

A zoo veterinarian i recently spoke to suspects it is being misdiagnosed as herpes in some cases as well.

Paranoia is a protective respond, and sometimes it is warranted.
Yes and also proactive. Animals are notorious for trying to just keep on carrying on until they can't. So quarantine is almost always the best when you bring home a new animal.
 

ZEROPILOT

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I know personally one actual breeder and another person that owns a retail store selling tortoises here in south Florida.
One has already seen/had cases. (And i cant confirm what he has done about it) One has not. And it seems like neither of them knew about this before the forum did.
 

ZEROPILOT

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Do not confuse YouTube personality/popularity with knowledgeable/responsible reptile husbandry.
I think that YouTube is pretty powerful. And being popular makes people trust you.
I fully agree with you. But I have people tell me about Kenan a lot when I mention thar I keep tortoises
 

Tom

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I must admit that I've never even heard of this disease before reading this thread. Sounds scary indeed but Mark1 does make a good point in that on the Internet such things can get exaggerated. Before you know it everyone is seeing the disease everywhere. Not downplaying the threat at all mind you and caution should ALWAYS be exercised when purchasing animals.

As for Kenan...he is YouTube entertainer and not a responsible reptile keeper. I doubt that any reputable, or long term keepers take him seriously, let alone have any respect for him. I've seen enough of his videos in which he obtains new (he's always getting 'new' stock it seems) animals that he simply dumps in with other resident animals.
Do not confuse YouTube personality/popularity with knowledgeable/responsible reptile husbandry.
Hi Carl! Long time no see!

Unfortunately, this Austwikia is the real deal. Not an exaggeration and appears to be popping up everywhere. It is truly a disastrous epidemic right now, and its not clear how it is going to end.

You are dead right about Kenan and that is an eloquent way to word it all. I keep trying to explain this to people, but your explanation is far superior. I'm going to "borrow" your words here going forward.
 

Cathie G

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Yes and also proactive. Animals are notorious for trying to just keep on carrying on until they can't. So quarantine is almost always the best when you bring home a new animal.
I amend my statement that it's almost always better to it's always best to quarantine a new animal. Another reason is a jetlagged poor little critter. A bit of time to destress.
 

Tom

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wh

what type of turtles ? snakes? lizards ? i'd be interested in who is seeing/confirming this ?
Talk to @mastershake He has all the details and specific cases.

He's been tracking this thing for years. I've talked to him on the phone several times about it, and I've also talked personally to the most recent and obvious "patient zero" in AZ. I'm sure this was around before patient zero in AZ, but we tracked it all back to him two years ago. I did see a reference of a case from 10-12 years ago, which is likely where the more recent AZ guy got it.
 

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