Lighting + design ideas for a 4’x8’ indoor Russian tortoise enclosure

[Xyelem]

Hi y’all, there’s some backstory here that I feel compelled to share, but if you just want to get to meat of it, skip to the second paragraph, lol.

So I’m not really sure where to start here, but I have a 12 year old female Russian tortoise named Pepper. My partner got Pepper for my step daughter a couple of years ago and has based all of the care for Pepper on the knowledge he gained working at Petco 15 years ago. I thought he knew what he was doing and so I didn’t intervene (which doesn’t mean that this isn’t still partially on me, since I personally chose not to do the research on an animal coming into my house and just took his word for it). He in fact did not know what he was doing. I did not realize that she was living in unacceptable conditions until a couple of weeks ago when I was doing research on aquatic turtle husbandry (my microbiology lab has 2 red eared sliders as pets and they’re not in great conditions so I was putting together a care sheet to present to the biology department in hopes of getting their enclosures upgraded). I said to myself “huh, if aquatic turtles need about 100 gallons of swimming water minimum to be happy, then there’s no way that Pepper has enough space in her 40 gallon terrarium”. Guttural shock and horror when I realized how seriously we were not meeting her care needs. Not to overshare, but my partner and I did not sleep in the same bed for several days, lol.

Ever since I have been manically researching best practices and have spent well over a grand constructing a 9’x12.5’ outdoor enclosure for Pepper. It’s still in progress, but I’m hoping to be done this week. With that being said, we’ve had an insane amount of rain and an insane number of thunderstorms/ tornadoes this last month and I don’t know what the rest of the summer will bring, so I’d like to have a nice indoor enclose for her as well (plus idk if she’ll be in good enough health to brumate this winter, I was planning on having her looked over by my exotics vet when we get a little closer to that time). I was thinking of using a 4’x8’x1’ raised garden bed and then lining the bottom with a 4’x8’ sealed plywood board. I could even caulk the 2 pieces together. I have cats so I would need a screen of some sort and was thinking of constructing a lid using wood and some kind of strong wired mesh. Pepper currently has a mercury vapor bulb, but I’m gathering that those are not great, so I was thinking of the Arcadia t5 bulb? Do I need more than one for such a large enclosure? And then I’ve also seen people say to have heat and UV separate, is that correct? I’m assuming I should have multiple basking spots in the enclosure with multiple hides? We’ve always used coconut coir for substrate as our other reptiles and my tarantulas use it, is that okay? And if so, how many inches of substrate will she need? Basking temp should be 95-100 and ambient temp should be around 80, yes? Any other advice would be very, very welcome.

Pic of Pepper soaking in the sun for tax (don’t worry, she can very much get out of that basin by herself if she gets too hot and she’s supervised the whole time!)

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Hello!
Most of your questions and a few not yet asked are answered in this post: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/info-for-new-people-please-read-this-first.202363/ (and the temperate species care sheet at the end of it).

1. Your plan with raised garden bed enclosure sounds fine. Don't forget to line the bottom with something water/scratch proof - like a good shower curtain, pond liner and such. This will save wood from rot.
2. You can make a wooden top or a frame out of PVC pipes. Optionally cover it with plastic and not a wire. While adult russian tortoises don't need closed type enclosures it will help to retain heat inside which is nice in cold rooms. Plan for the height about 2 feet above substrate (to safely install UVB lamp and basking bulb dome).
3. One UVB lamp installed at the basking spot is enough, tortoise should always have some place to get away from UVB/heat/bright light. Separating heating and UVB sources makes it easier to adjust UVB exposure and basking area temperatures (both in terms of timings and intensity). It's described in details in the post I've linked (look for Lightning/Heating Breakdown section).
4. Coco coir is a good substrate option, however adult tortoises can make a lot of mess with it. You can start with coir and add a layer of orchid (fir) bark later. Aim for 4-6 inches of substrate (coir should be hand-packed to a half of initial volume, so you will need 10-12 inches of "raw" rehydrated coir).
5. Basking spot could be 95-105F and ambient temperature around 70-75F (with nighttime drops to 60-65F). Adult Russian tortoises are cold-hardy and do fine in room temperatures. However, a bit higher temperatures can be required to prevent brumation. And 80-85F may be required to "perk up" a sick tortoise.

You are welcome with any further questions!

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

As a general rule in substrate depth, the tortoise should be able to submerge herself completely. Could you send closer photos of her eyes and the underside of her beak? Just to make sure there aren't any health problems caused by the previous set up.

 

[Xyelem]

As a general rule in substrate depth, the tortoise should be able to submerge herself completely. Could you send closer photos of her eyes and the underside of her beak? Just to make sure there aren't any health problems caused by the previous set up.

Absolutely

 

[Xyelem]

Hello!
Most of your questions and a few not yet asked are answered in this post: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/info-for-new-people-please-read-this-first.202363/ (and the temperate species care sheet at the end of it).

1. Your plan with raised garden bed enclosure sounds fine. Don't forget to line the bottom with something water/scratch proof - like a good shower curtain, pond liner and such. This will save wood from rot.
2. You can make a wooden top or a frame out of PVC pipes. Optionally cover it with plastic and not a wire. While adult russian tortoises don't need closed type enclosures it will help to retain heat inside which is nice in cold rooms. Plan for the height about 2 feet above substrate (to safely install UVB lamp and basking bulb dome).
3. One UVB lamp installed at the basking spot is enough, tortoise should always have some place to get away from UVB/heat/bright light. Separating heating and UVB sources makes it easier to adjust UVB exposure and basking area temperatures (both in terms of timings and intensity). It's described in details in the post I've linked (look for Lightning/Heating Breakdown section).
4. Coco coir is a good substrate option, however adult tortoises can make a lot of mess with it. You can start with coir and add a layer of orchid (fir) bark later. Aim for 4-6 inches of substrate (coir should be hand-packed to a half of initial volume, so you will need 10-12 inches of "raw" rehydrated coir).
5. Basking spot could be 95-105F and ambient temperature around 70-75F (with nighttime drops to 60-65F). Adult Russian tortoises are cold-hardy and do fine in room temperatures. However, a bit higher temperatures can be required to prevent brumation. And 80-85F may be required to "perk up" a sick tortoise.

You are welcome with any further questions!

Awesome, thank you so much! Would sealing with a food safe epoxy be sufficient? Like instead of using a pond liner? If not that’s fine, but since this enclosure is taking up such a big space in my room, I kind of want it to look as nice as possible. I don’t exactly think she’s sick (although I’ll know more when I meet with my exotics vet soon here). She’s definitely not lethargic at all and doesn’t have any pyramiding, anyway. I finished cutting, staining, and sealing the wood for the visual barrier on her outdoor enclosure the other day, and I finally got them installed today, which means that she can actually hang out in here now (I’ve also installed dig guards all around the perimeter so she can’t dig her way out), and she’s zipping all over the place and exploring. She just ate a big salad and had a soak and now she’s determined to learn about every inch of the space. I still have to do some landscaping on the interior, like I’m adding in a completely edible wildflower garden and a little rock garden and I have to finish making her deep shade hide, but otherwise it’s pretty much done.

I do think I should stick with a wire mesh, mostly because my cats are assholes and don’t respect me. Do you think a 4’x8’x2’ would be a better option than a 4’x8’x1’? Thank you again for the advice and the link to resources!

Pic of the (almost finished) outdoor enclosure. I wanted to be able to come outside and hang out with her so I got a couple of zero gravity chairs to put in there and I strung solar powered twinkle lights as well (which will be kept off at night unless I’m out there hanging out with a friend or my partner or something). There’s also a flagstone path on the inside to help keep her nails trim and stuff.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Awesome, thank you so much! Would sealing with a food safe epoxy be sufficient? Like instead of using a pond liner? If not that’s fine, but since this enclosure is taking up such a big space in my room, I kind of want it to look as nice as possible. I don’t exactly think she’s sick (although I’ll know more when I meet with my exotics vet soon here). She’s definitely not lethargic at all and doesn’t have any pyramiding, anyway. I finished cutting, staining, and sealing the wood for the visual barrier on her outdoor enclosure the other day, and I finally got them installed today, which means that she can actually hang out in here now (I’ve also installed dig guards all around the perimeter so she can’t dig her way out), and she’s zipping all over the place and exploring. She just ate a big salad and had a soak and now she’s determined to learn about every inch of the space. I still have to do some landscaping on the interior, like I’m adding in a completely edible wildflower garden and a little rock garden and I have to finish making her deep shade hide, but otherwise it’s pretty much done.

I do think I should stick with a wire mesh, mostly because my cats are assholes and don’t respect me. Do you think a 4’x8’x2’ would be a better option than a 4’x8’x1’? Thank you again for the advice and the link to resources!

Pic of the (almost finished) outdoor enclosure. I wanted to be able to come outside and hang out with her so I got a couple of zero gravity chairs to put in there and I strung solar powered twinkle lights as well (which will be kept off at night unless I’m out there hanging out with a friend or my partner or something). There’s also a flagstone path on the inside to help keep her nails trim and stuff.View attachment 371447

Outdoor space looks great! I wish to see it finished with a tortoise happily exploring!

Now about the indoors:
1. I didn't use wood in my enclosure yet those who did tell that any kind of painting don't work except maybe Pond Shield. Usually because tortoises rub their shells on the coating and damage it then water gets in and the whole thing fails. Marine-grade epoxy should last for some years though. You can hide shower curtain or pond liner edges behind the panels made of coroplast/plexiglass or PVC to make it better looking. Also there are plastic garden beds if you haven't got one yet.
2. The walls can be 1 ft high, however you need about 18-24 inches above the substrate to hang the UVB light (recommended height for Arcadia Desert 12%) and have some vertical space to adjust height of the basking lamp dome. You can hang the lights over the mesh (at the cost of some lost UVB and heat) but cats can mess with fixtures and it's not safe for them as well (if a cat gets in-between the lamp and the mesh it can get burned). We can brainstorm how to make a frame safe and better looking.

She doesn't look sick, just the upper beak needs some trimming (you can ask the vet to trim it and teach you how to do that).

 

[Xyelem]

Outdoor space looks great! I wish to see it finished with a tortoise happily exploring!

Now about the indoors:
1. I didn't use wood in my enclosure yet those who did tell that any kind of painting don't work except maybe Pond Shield. Usually because tortoises rub their shells on the coating and damage it then water gets in and the whole thing fails. Marine-grade epoxy should last for some years though. You can hide shower curtain or pond liner edges behind the panels made of coroplast/plexiglass or PVC to make it better looking. Also there are plastic garden beds if you haven't got one yet.
2. The walls can be 1 ft high, however you need about 18-24 inches above the substrate to hang the UVB light (recommended height for Arcadia Desert 12%) and have some vertical space to adjust height of the basking lamp dome. You can hang the lights over the mesh (at the cost of some lost UVB and heat) but cats can mess with fixtures and it's not safe for them as well (if a cat gets in-between the lamp and the mesh it can get burned). We can brainstorm how to make a frame safe and better looking.

She doesn't look sick, just the upper beak needs some trimming (you can ask the vet to trim it and teach you how to do that).

I’m thinking of going with this for the actual enclosure. I feel like 2 feet would allow for the appropriate substrate depth + a little extra for good measure (if I’ve learned anything from keeping terrestrial and fossorial tarantulas, it’s that you should always add more substrate, lol) and would also allow for the bulbs to be at the appropriate distance/ would help minimize the risk of swinging fixtures and cats that have literally zero survival instincts. There is no bottom to it, so I’m going to have to manufacture one with plywood, which isn’t a big deal. I looked at pond sealer and it honestly kind of looks like a pain in the *** to work with, and that’s coming from someone that regularly works with a variety of polyurethanes and epoxies. I think my next best solution is figuring out how to make a pond liner work for my purposes. For the lid, I think I’m going to take some pieces of 12’x4”x1” lumber and build a frame with a support piece in the middle of the lid. I’m thinking of double layering it so I can sandwich the hardware cloth between two pieces of wood. Like, I’d stretch and staple the hardware cloth, and then take a lot of wood glue and clamp on the other wood and then use my nail gun to further ensure the two pieces stay together. It just gives more support if one of my cats were to jump on the lid. I’m thinking of putting hinges on the back and a soft opening hinge on the inside. I’d cut the corners so the edge of the lid sits flush with the bed and then I can add little latches so the lid stays securely shut.

And I got her pretty much done today! I just need to plant the flowers (it’s pesticide/ fertilizer free, certified organic soil) and add some more tortoise safe greenery!

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Sounds like a nice plan.
With a pond liner and metallic walls the easiest would be, perhaps, is to place one layer over the plywood before putting the garden bed and another one inside with an overlap on the walls. Then use a good duct tape to stick it to the walls.
Adding wheels to a plywood bottom can be a good idea, probably.

With a 4-6 inches of substrate and 2 inches high lamp fixture you will get 16-18 inches between the UVB lamp and substrate. This is the lower margin of recommended installation height, maybe you can raise the frame for lids for 2-5 of inches.

The outdoor pen looks so good!

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

I would make a frame of some sort for the wheels instead of attaching the wheels straight to the plywood. (Depending on the thickness of the plywood ofc)

 

[Xyelem]

Sounds like a nice plan.
With a pond liner and metallic walls the easiest would be, perhaps, is to place one layer over the plywood before putting the garden bed and another one inside with an overlap on the walls. Then use a good duct tape to stick it to the walls.
Adding wheels to a plywood bottom can be a good idea, probably.

With a 4-6 inches of substrate and 2 inches high lamp fixture you will get 16-18 inches between the UVB lamp and substrate. This is the lower margin of recommended installation height, maybe you can raise the frame for lids for 2-5 of inches.

The outdoor pen looks so good!

I was planning on adding in a couple of extra inches of substrate

Sounds like a nice plan.
With a pond liner and metallic walls the easiest would be, perhaps, is to place one layer over the plywood before putting the garden bed and another one inside with an overlap on the walls. Then use a good duct tape to stick it to the walls.
Adding wheels to a plywood bottom can be a good idea, probably.

With a 4-6 inches of substrate and 2 inches high lamp fixture you will get 16-18 inches between the UVB lamp and substrate. This is the lower margin of recommended installation height, maybe you can raise the frame for lids for 2-5 of inches.

The outdoor pen looks so good!

I was thinking of doing like 6 extra inches of substrate to make up for the height discrepancy. I could be wrong, but in the wild they’re not limited to 4-6 inches of substrate, so I figure that extra substrate shouldn’t hurt.

And thank you!

 

[Xyelem]

I would make a frame of some sort for the wheels instead of attaching the wheels straight to the plywood. (Depending on the thickness of the plywood ofc)

I think this is probably the smartest option for adding wheels! Thank you!

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

I was thinking of doing like 6 extra inches of substrate to make up for the height discrepancy. I could be wrong, but in the wild they’re not limited to 4-6 inches of substrate, so I figure that extra substrate shouldn’t hurt.

And thank you!

Extra substrate won't hurt. 4-6 inches is a recommended minimum and is usually enough to burrow completely.