Thoughts on WIP enclosure?

[RaspberrySam]

(EDIT: It would probably help if I mentioned that this is for an Eastern Hermann's hatchling.)

After some top tier advice from you guys on my last thread (about sealing) I thought I'd put in another, with some pictures and more info!

Please note that this is a 'dry run'- there won't be any tortoise in this Viv for at least two more weeks!

So this is the general viv setup at the moment (excuse the mess!):


The current temp/light timer setup is as follows:

Daytime (08:00-20:00): Both ambient and basking lamps on. Ambient temp stable around 27.5°C, basking at ground level around 32°C to 34°C on the piece of slate.

Nighttime (20:00-08:00): Both lamps off. Ambient temp reduced to 15.5°C.

Temperature leeway set to +/- 1.5°C.

Cold side (with the hide) is roughly 22°C to 23°C
Hot side (with basking lamp) is roughly 27°C to 28°C
Gradient during daytime is therefore about 5°C



This isn't the final form of the inside layout; I intend to include a few more items before tort day, including:

• A shallow water dish
• A humid hide
• More, larger pieces of slate
• Hygrometers
• Probably some simple enrichment (nothing that could cause flipping or injury, natch)

The duct tape you see around the edge is holding a sheet of shower curtain as a liner for the bottom of the viv. Again, this may not be permanent.

While that double fitting can hold two bulbs, it only has the one at the moment; I may add an LED bulb to the second socket to increase light without increasing heat, and make it a little more attractive to tort.

The Viv holds humidity pretty well judging by the condensation on the glass. I've been adding about a cup of water to each corner of the substrate daily to maintain that.



A shot of the roof of the viv. I positioned the Arcadia and the CHE center of the viv to ensure a balanced ambient temp.

If there's anything that needs changing or if more detail is needed, do please let me know!

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Ooo looks great!

Just a few things, for basking temp try and aim for 35-38 on the slate, perhaps try lowering the bulb ever so slightly to achieve this and pop your monitor directly underneath for a few hours to make sure it’s staying in that range, it can go up to 40 but wouldn’t let it go higher.

Your day temperature gradient sounds great though! I’d personally have night temperature set in the 20c range, just tweak the thermostat your ceramic is on to bring that up a bit

Then the only other thing I’d probably suggest is mounting the uv a bit closer to the basking instead of the middle, I know it admittedly looks nicer there, but ideally the basking bulb and uv should be as close to each other as possible the one end

Ambient lighting could technically do with going in the middle next to the CHE, but I know that’s a bit tricky having the duel dome, so don’t worry too much about that. But perhaps you could get some cheap strip lighting to pop in the middle at some point. The uv only needs to be on 4hours, so it’s good having the ambient lighting in the middle to light the whole enclosure for when it goes off, instead of it being the end the basking bulb is lighting anyway if that makes sense.

All in all great job! Your baby will be very happy

 

[wellington]

Keep basking between 95-100 wouldn't go higher at all.
Seeing I didn't convert all your temps from C to F ill just say what they should be
Day time a gradient from 75+80F
Basking 95-100F.
Night time around 70F
Most try to put the uvb right next to basking. It's okay to do so it's not a must. Years ago that wasn't the norm.

 

[RaspberrySam]

Ooo looks great!

Just a few things, for basking temp try and aim for 35-38 on the slate, perhaps try lowering the bulb ever so slightly to achieve this and pop your monitor directly underneath for a few hours to make sure it’s staying in that range, it can go up to 40 but wouldn’t let it go higher.

Your day temperature gradient sounds great though! I’d personally have night temperature set in the 20c range, just tweak the thermostat your ceramic is on to bring that up a bit

Thanks for the tips! I figured they'd need tweaking a bit, but I was close at least, lol.

Then the only other thing I’d probably suggest is mounting the uv a bit closer to the basking instead of the middle, I know it admittedly looks nicer there, but ideally the basking bulb and uv should be as close to each other as possible the one end

So swing the Arcadia strip over to one end you mean?

Ambient lighting could technically do with going in the middle next to the CHE, but I know that’s a bit tricky having the duel dome, so don’t worry too much about that. But perhaps you could get some cheap strip lighting to pop in the middle at some point. The uv only needs to be on 4hours, so it’s good having the ambient lighting in the middle to light the whole enclosure for when it goes off, instead of it being the end the basking bulb is lighting anyway if that makes sense.

This is where it gets interesting, because my thermostat only has two outlets. One is dedicated to the CHE and controls ambient temperature, the other controls both UV sources. I don't know if it's possible to set the Arcadia on a separate timer unless I use an entirely separate outlet; would you say that this is necessary or will tort be happy as it is set up now?

All in all great job! Your baby will be very happy

I'm glad I'm doing something right I've been paranoid as heck up to now. Thanks for your input!

 

[RaspberrySam]

Keep basking between 95-100 wouldn't go higher at all.

So you recommend basking at about 35-37 °C; that's roughly in line with what the other reply said. I'll lower the basking lamp ever so slightly to bring that up.

Seeing I didn't convert all your temps from C to F ill just say what they should be
Day time a gradient from 75+80F
Basking 95-100F.
Night time around 70F
Most try to put the uvb right next to basking. It's okay to do so it's not a must. Years ago that wasn't the norm.

For posterity, I'll translate these figures to Celsius:
Gradient: 23.8°c cold to 26.6°c
Basking: 35°c-37.7°c
Night ambient: 21.1°c

So again, in line with what Littleredfootbigredheart said. Thanks for the second opinion!

 

[wellington]

So you recommend basking at about 35-37 °C; that's roughly in line with what the other reply said. I'll lower the basking lamp ever so slightly to bring that up.

For posterity, I'll translate these figures to Celsius:
Gradient: 23.8°c cold to 26.6°c
Basking: 35°c-37.7°c
Night ambient: 21.1°c

So again, in line with what Littleredfootbigredheart said. Thanks for the second opinion!

Except don't let the basking go up to the 104 that was mentioned. They don't bask as much when it's over 100. Keeping it closer to 95 is actually better in my opinion and over the years that I have had tortoises, adults and hatchlings, that seems to be the best.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Thanks for the tips! I figured they'd need tweaking a bit, but I was close at least, lol.

So swing the Arcadia strip over to one end you mean?

This is where it gets interesting, because my thermostat only has two outlets. One is dedicated to the CHE and controls ambient temperature, the other controls both UV sources. I don't know if it's possible to set the Arcadia on a separate timer unless I use an entirely separate outlet; would you say that this is necessary or will tort be happy as it is set up now?

I'm glad I'm doing something right I've been paranoid as heck up to now. Thanks for your input!

Personally yes I’d mount it near the basking light, I can’t remember which member it was that posted it now, but there was a study suggesting both the basking heat and uv work better when they’re by each other, I’ll have to have a look for it.

When you say both uv sources, you only need one uv source and that’s your tube uv which doesn’t need to be on a thermostat.

The basking light should be an incandescent floodlight(did you get confused because that one has uva on the box? UVA is different to uvb) but if it’s a screw in uvb bulb, replace it with a reptile floodlight, this also tends to with better off of a thermostat, you want to try and get the right height and watt to achieve the desired basking temperature directly underneath

Essentially you’re wanting both the basking light and ambient led light on the same 12hr timer(not thermostat) then your tube uv on a separate 4hr timer from noon till 4ish(also not on a thermostat)
Then your CHE will be plugged into the thermostat 24/7, no need for it to be on a timer, the thermostat will turn it on/off as and when needed, set it to roughly 70f and place the probe in the corner of the coolest end

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Except don't let the basking go up to the 104 that was mentioned. They don't bask as much when it's over 100. Keeping it closer to 95 is actually better in my opinion and over the years that I have had tortoises, adults and hatchlings, that seems to be the best.

Yeah that’s fair I didn’t convert f to c properly! My bad, you want it 95-100 which is the 35-38 range I covered(had it in mind 40 was roughly 100 lol)

 

[RaspberrySam]

Personally yes I’d mount it near the basking light, I can’t remember which member it was that posted it now, but there was a study suggesting both the basking heat and uv work better when they’re by each other, I’ll have to have a look for it.

When you say both uv sources, you only need one uv source and that’s your tube uv which doesn’t need to be on a thermostat.

The basking light should be an incandescent floodlight(did you get confused because that one has uva on the box? UVA is different to uvb) but if it’s a screw in uvb bulb, replace it with a reptile floodlight, this also tends to with better off of a thermostat, you want to try and get the right height and watt to achieve the desired basking temperature directly underneath

Essentially you’re wanting both the basking light and ambient led light on the same 12hr timer(not thermostat) then your tube uv on a separate 4hr timer from noon till 4ish(also not on a thermostat)
Then your CHE will be plugged into the thermostat 24/7, no need for it to be on a timer, the thermostat will turn it on/off as and when needed, set it to roughly 70f and place the probe in the corner of the coolest end

The basking bulb is an Exo-Terra UVA bulb, 75w. UVB is handled by the Arcadia tube.
So basically your advice is to take the Arcadia tube off the same timer as the basking and have it on a separate timer. Good to know!

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

The basking bulb is an Exo-Terra UVA bulb, 75w. UVB is handled by the Arcadia tube.
So basically your advice is to take the Arcadia tube off the same timer as the basking and have it on a separate timer. Good to know!

That basking bulb is fine, yeah the tube is the only uv source, I got thrown when you mentioned ‘both uv sources’, yep I’d plug your uv into a separate timer

With the uv timing, every other source of information will tell you 12hours of uv. This is essentially an old fashioned rule that has stuck with a lot of keepers, it stems from the presumption that once the basking light or ambient lighting is on, ie the ‘sun’, that uv must coexist the same amount of hours. Fact is, uv rays only peak for a few hours a day, anyone with a uv meter will confirm this. No tortoise is blasted with 12 hours of uv in the wild, therefore it’s not necessary in captivity.
The uv bulbs are much more expensive to replace once their uv strength diminishes, so it’s definitely best having it on a 4 hour timer that provides them with all the uv they need, saving your bulb life.
Then some cheaper led lighting for your ambient 12 hour light cycle as well as the basking light on the same 12hrs, your ceramic will run 24/7 on the thermostat, hope that all makes sense

 

[wellington]

Yeah that’s fair I didn’t convert f to c properly! My bad, you want it 95-100 which is the 35-38 range I covered(had it in mind 40 was roughly 100 lol)

Actually my conversion had your 40c being 105F that you said it could go up to. It's not horrendously over, but I wouldn't let it go over 100 and as I already said, 95 is what I have seen being more ideal.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Actually my conversion had your 40c being 105F that you said it could go up to. It's not horrendously over, but I wouldn't let it go over 100 and as I already said, 95 is what I have seen being more ideal.

Oh interesting it’s come up 104 for me when checking just, but I agree I wouldn’t want it over 100, I’m sure when checking before 40 converted into roughly 101 so figured that’s fine, but I must’ve remembered wrong, I only go off F not C so can get a bit confusing

 

[RaspberrySam]

That basking bulb is fine, yeah the tube is the only uv source, I got thrown when you mentioned ‘both uv sources’, yep I’d plug your uv into a separate timer

With the uv timing, every other source of information will tell you 12hours of uv. This is essentially an old fashioned rule that has stuck with a lot of keepers, it stems from the presumption that once the basking light or ambient lighting is on, ie the ‘sun’, that uv must coexist the same amount of hours. Fact is, uv rays only peak for a few hours a day, anyone with a uv meter will confirm this. No tortoise is blasted with 12 hours of uv in the wild, therefore it’s not necessary in captivity.
The uv bulbs are much more expensive to replace once their uv strength diminishes, so it’s definitely best having it on a 4 hour timer that provides them with all the uv they need, saving your bulb life.
Then some cheaper led lighting for your ambient 12 hour light cycle as well as the basking light on the same 12hrs, your ceramic will run 24/7 on the thermostat, hope that all makes sense

I get it! Basically the UVB doesn't need to be on the entire time like the basking lamp so only give it a short period per day to save costs long term.

I'm guessing also that too much UVB isn't healthy for tort, so I'll be certain to get that on a separate circuit and timer for sure!

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

I get it! Basically the UVB doesn't need to be on the entire time like the basking lamp so only give it a short period per day to save costs long term.

I'm guessing also that too much UVB isn't healthy for tort, so I'll be certain to get that on a separate circuit and timer for sure!

Yeah just four hours from noon(or whatever time you see your tortoise appears to favour basking, they can all differ a little bit) it’s not necessarily harmful as far as I’m aware, but definitely not natural so possibly a bit annoying for them, plus yeah no point in draining the t5 bulb as they’re more expensive to replace

 

[wellington]

Oh interesting it’s come up 104 for me when checking just, but I agree I wouldn’t want it over 100, I’m sure when checking before 40 converted into roughly 101 so figured that’s fine, but I must’ve remembered wrong, I only go off F not C so can get a bit confusing

I always wondered if the conversion I use is correct. I just Google it and the first one that comes up is the one I use. I don't do it often though, as I just list the temps in F and the OP can do the conversion.

 

[RaspberrySam]

@wellington @Littleredfootbigredheart

Update! I've made a few modifications as suggested:

• I've moved the UVB strip closer to the basking lamps, and placed it on a separate timer to turn on for four hours a day!
• I've lowered the basking lamp ever so slightly to up the temperature at the basking spot.
• For ambient light I've scrounged some LED strip from my computer desk (which rarely got used anyway) and mounted it to run during the day period. It's not quite as bright as the Arcadia but it illuminates the Viv pretty well.
• I've installed some basic hygrometers at either end of the viv; concerningly, the humidity is still pretty high at the cooler end (90%) when I believe it's better to be around 80%> This may be because I've over watered the corners of the viv, but I'm going to keep an eye on it.
• I've upped the night temps to 20°c. Again, somewhat concerned as the temperature takes a very long time to lower and never quite reaches the 20° target (hovering around 21.5°).

Anyone got any ideas for how I can better manage the humidity/temp if need be?

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

@wellington @Littleredfootbigredheart

Update! I've made a few modifications as suggested:

• I've moved the UVB strip closer to the basking lamps, and placed it on a separate timer to turn on for four hours a day!
• I've lowered the basking lamp ever so slightly to up the temperature at the basking spot.
• For ambient light I've scrounged some LED strip from my computer desk (which rarely got used anyway) and mounted it to run during the day period. It's not quite as bright as the Arcadia but it illuminates the Viv pretty well.
• I've installed some basic hygrometers at either end of the viv; concerningly, the humidity is still pretty high at the cooler end (90%) when I believe it's better to be around 80%> This may be because I've over watered the corners of the viv, but I'm going to keep an eye on it.
• I've upped the night temps to 20°c. Again, somewhat concerned as the temperature takes a very long time to lower and never quite reaches the 20° target (hovering around 21.5°).

Anyone got any ideas for how I can better manage the humidity/temp if need be?View attachment 382496View attachment 382497View attachment 382498

That all sounds pretty damn perfect! Don’t worry that humidity is higher the one side, that’s good for babies plus it’ll naturally come down once the substrate dries a little, as long as it’s all above 80 you’re good
21.5 is a fine night temperature too so I wouldn’t worryyou could always turn the thermostat down the teeny tiniest bit if you’re wanting it to cool down a bit quicker at night, but all in all everything sounds great! You’ve achieved a great environment for a baby!

 

[RaspberrySam]

That all sounds pretty damn perfect! Don’t worry that humidity is higher the one side, that’s good for babies plus it’ll naturally come down once the substrate dries a little, as long as it’s all above 80 you’re good
21.5 is a fine night temperature too so I wouldn’t worryyou could always turn the thermostat down the teeny tiniest bit if you’re wanting it to cool down a bit quicker at night, but all in all everything sounds great! You’ve achieved a great environment for a baby!

Amazing! I've been pretty paranoid ever since my decision to get a hatchling so I'm super glad that it's all turning out well!

And it wouldn't have been possible without you or the Tort Forum at large, so thanks to you all for your aid! <3

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Amazing! I've been pretty paranoid ever since my decision to get a hatchling so I'm super glad that it's all turning out well!

And it wouldn't have been possible without you or the Tort Forum at large, so thanks to you all for your aid! <3

Bless you I’d be the exact same don’t worry! I obsess making sure everything is perfect!

You’ve done a great job and should be very proud! I’m so glad we could all help

Can’t wait to see baby moved in! Definitely post some photos!

 

[RaspberrySam]

@Littleredfootbigredheart @wellington

In lieu of making a new thread, here's another update!

I've made and installed a humid hide (with its own hygrometer), added some slate and a water dish for good measure. My only concern is the water dish being a tad big/deep, but that's an issue I can/will fix before the tort comes home.

Have you any suggestions?