Tips for new sulcata owner?

[Rosiegirl]

Ok well I don’t have time to banter back and forth...so good luck with your sweet baby! I will leave you with this that I was sent by a veterinarian. Maybe he is wrong and I apologize to all my tortoises that have never had any health problems and have enjoyed an occasional strawberry, but here u go Good luck!

DIET OF SULCATA TORTOISES
The phrase used most commonly by sulcata owners to describe their tortoises is “eating machine.” Sulcatas graze and forage for hours during the day. In captivity, they need to be able to graze on pesticide- and herbicide-free grasses and weeds.

• Grasses and hay: Sulcata tortoises NEED access to grasses and hay on which to graze. This is the bulk of their diet (90%) and should be from pesticide- and herbicide-free grass and grass cuttings, cheat grass, clover, edible flowers (nasturtium, geraniums, hibiscus, rose petals) and shrubs.
  • Avoid feeding predominately alfalfa hay, as this is high in oxalates and can cause stone formation within lthe bladder, kidney failure and decrease life-span.
  • Grass hays to offer include: Timothy, meadow grass, oat hay, orchard grass.

• Greens and vegetables:
  • Greens to offer include: collard greens, kale, mustard, turnip and dandelion greens. Limit greens that are high in oxalates, such as: parsley, spinach, rhubarb, beet greens and collard greens.
  • Vegetables should be about 10-15% of the diet. These can include: grated raw carrots, winter squash, sweet potatoes, pumpkin, broccoli, corn on the cob; greens such as collards, dandelions, escarole, romaine, kale.

• Fruits:
  • Fruits should be fed sparingly, as a treat. These tend to be high in sugar and water content, both of which sulcatas are not accustomed to receiving in the wild. Fruits that are appropriate to offer as treats include: strawberries, chunks of organically grown bananas with skin, cantaloupe with rind attached, berries; peaches (no pits), apricots (no pits), pears, apples.

 

[Tom]

Ok well I don’t have time to banter back and forth...so good luck with your sweet baby! I will leave you with this that I was sent by a veterinarian. Maybe he is wrong and I apologize to all my tortoises that have never had any health problems and have enjoyed an occasional strawberry, but here u go Good luck!

DIET OF SULCATA TORTOISES
The phrase used most commonly by sulcata owners to describe their tortoises is “eating machine.” Sulcatas graze and forage for hours during the day. In captivity, they need to be able to graze on pesticide- and herbicide-free grasses and weeds.

• Grasses and hay: Sulcata tortoises NEED access to grasses and hay on which to graze. This is the bulk of their diet (90%) and should be from pesticide- and herbicide-free grass and grass cuttings, cheat grass, clover, edible flowers (nasturtium, geraniums, hibiscus, rose petals) and shrubs.
  • Avoid feeding predominately alfalfa hay, as this is high in oxalates and can cause stone formation within lthe bladder, kidney failure and decrease life-span.
  • Grass hays to offer include: Timothy, meadow grass, oat hay, orchard grass.

• Greens and vegetables:
  • Greens to offer include: collard greens, kale, mustard, turnip and dandelion greens. Limit greens that are high in oxalates, such as: parsley, spinach, rhubarb, beet greens and collard greens.
  • Vegetables should be about 10-15% of the diet. These can include: grated raw carrots, winter squash, sweet potatoes, pumpkin, broccoli, corn on the cob; greens such as collards, dandelions, escarole, romaine, kale.

• Fruits:
  • Fruits should be fed sparingly, as a treat. These tend to be high in sugar and water content, both of which sulcatas are not accustomed to receiving in the wild. Fruits that are appropriate to offer as treats include: strawberries, chunks of organically grown bananas with skin, cantaloupe with rind attached, berries; peaches (no pits), apricots (no pits), pears, apples.

This is not the worst list I've seen, but you must realize that you are reading one person's opinion here. People seem to mentally elevate vets to some sort of God-like" status thinking they must have learned everything there is to know in all those years in vet school. They are just people. Some of them are smart and experienced, and some of them just pretend to be. Ask the vet that wrote this how many semesters there were on tortoise husbandry and tortoise nutrition in vet school. The answer will be zero. So what is this info based on? Does he/she have decades of experience with trial and error and experimentation with dozens or hundreds of tortoises? Or did he/she read this out of a book, simply parroting some other vets, or other person's opinions on the matter?

Overall, this is a pretty good list, but the percentage of store bought veggies is too high in my opinion, and I think the fruit should be entirely discouraged. If it is so bad that it can only be fed in small amounts once in a while as a "treat" then why feed it at all? Think about that for a minute…

My biggest complaint about the list is the complete omission of SOOOOOOOOOO many good tortoise foods that ought to be fed to any large sulcata tortoise. Grass and grass hay is mentioned and that is terrific. "Weeds" are mentioned, but no mention of which weeds. How about dandelion, mallow, filaree, wild mustard, sow-thistle, broad and narrow leaf plantain, and so many more? What about hibiscus, mulberry and grape leaves. All three can be staples. Why no mention of spineless opuntia, which is a major component of my tortoises diets in spring, summer and fall, and all the other good succulents?

As I said, this is not the worst list I've seen, but it's not great either. I think following this list would certainly keep a tortoise alive, but we can all do better.

 

[Rosiegirl]

This is not the worst list I've seen, but you must realize that you are reading one person's opinion here. People seem to mentally elevate vets to some sort of God-like" status thinking they must have learned everything there is to know in all those years in vet school. They are just people. Some of them are smart and experienced, and some of them just pretend to be. Ask the vet that wrote this how many semesters there were on tortoise husbandry and tortoise nutrition in vet school. The answer will be zero. So what is this info based on? Does he/she have decades of experience with trial and error and experimentation with dozens or hundreds of tortoises? Or did he/she read this out of a book, simply parroting some other vets, or other person's opinions on the matter?

Overall, this is a pretty good list, but the percentage of store bought veggies is too high in my opinion, and I think the fruit should be entirely discouraged. If it is so bad that it can only be fed in small amounts once in a while as a "treat" then why feed it at all? Think about that for a minute…

My biggest complaint about the list is the complete omission of SOOOOOOOOOO many good tortoise foods that ought to be fed to any large sulcata tortoise. Grass and grass hay is mentioned and that is terrific. "Weeds" are mentioned, but no mention of which weeds. How about dandelion, mallow, filaree, wild mustard, sow-thistle, broad and narrow leaf plantain, and so many more? What about hibiscus, mulberry and grape leaves. All three can be staples. Why no mention of spineless opuntia, which is a major component of my tortoises diets in spring, summer and fall, and all the other good succulents?

As I said, this is not the worst list I've seen, but it's not great either. I think following this list would certainly keep a tortoise alive, but we can all do better.

You are absolutely right and I honestly didn’t post this for it to be followed exactly and be an all encompassing list (No vets are not 100% accurate all the time, not many people are and you really have to compile all the info you find and do what you feel is best, that’s for sure) Yes, There are many other things that aren’t listed that the tortoises love (spineless opuntia, dandelions, grape leaves, hibiscus...they love it) I just posted that so that she can see that there is so many other things available to give her tortoise a varied diet and that some fruits as a “treat” are not going to prove fatal, as a previous post said and where did that info come from? Okay, so I know that I can’t give my dog a diet of 100% treats, so why give him the occasional biscuit as a reward? I mean, that doesn’t make sense. I thought this would be a cool supportive forum but I am thinking otherwise. Have a great night! ✌️Good Luck @Emily Contreras! I am off

 

[Minority2]

You are absolutely right and I honestly didn’t post this for it to be followed exactly and be an all encompassing list (No vets are not 100% accurate all the time, not many people are and you really have to compile all the info you find and do what you feel is best, that’s for sure) Yes, There are many other things that aren’t listed that the tortoises love (spineless opuntia, dandelions, grape leaves, hibiscus...they love it) I just posted that so that she can see that there is so many other things available to give her tortoise a varied diet and that some fruits as a “treat” are not going to prove fatal, as a previous post said and where did that info come from? Okay, so I know that I can’t give my dog a diet of 100% treats, so why give him the occasional biscuit as a reward? I mean, that doesn’t make sense. I thought this would be a cool supportive forum but I am thinking otherwise. Have a great night! ✌️Good Luck @Emily Contreras! I am off

Dogs do not need commercially sold treats. They're not nutritious nor are they good for dogs. My cousin and I raised and bred rottweilers in our youth and we never bought any "treats" for our dogs. The reward mechanism for completing tricks and or commands can be replaced by physical affection and other alternatives. Treats are not necessary. Typical pet industry malarkey to make people spend more money on unnecessary things.

My issue with your previous posts was that you combined store bought greens and grasses as a category.

Oh that is good to hear! Yes, mine Loved hibiscus flowers too! They can eat zucchini and Veges, you just have to research the ones that are good, they say about 80% good greens, grasses etc and no more than 20% of fruits and stuff. My tortoises love them and are super healthy. I’m just telling u from my experience... good luck with your baby!

That is simply incorrect. Grasses, hay, weeds, and flowers is a category all to itself. That category is what makes up the majority of a tortoise's main diet. Not store bought greens. Unspecified information such as that can potentially give the wrong impression to advice seekers. This is why various people have replied to this thread in an attempt to inform the original poster of the consequences of such actions. I'm against fruits myself. Tom has done a very good job commenting on that subject so I'm going to leave that alone.

Tortoises are a hardy species. Some examples have been known to survive bad living conditions and diets for many years. Their survival isn't an indication of how well their care was; it's the evidence of how incredible their self-preservation is.

Tortoise care is constantly evolving. Past information may not relevant in this day of age. New owners as well as experienced keepers should keep an open mind. Instead of going on the defense, people should feel free to discuss care information. The purpose is to give our tortoise's the best care possible.

Everyone's been wrong at one time or another. There's no need to feel so defensive.

 

[Tom]

Everyone's been wrong at one time or another. There's no need to feel so defensive.

I've been wrong lots of times. @Will has busted me many times, and I learn from it each time. I don't hate Will and leave the forum. I thank the man for taking the time to correct my ignorance time and time again. Same for quite a few other members.

 

[Rosiegirl]

I was only using the treat thing as an example because of his comment. That is fine if you choose not to give your dogs treats. I personally bake mine and they aren't store bought and my dog loves them (along with love and affection). I never claimed to be an expert but obviously the people on here do. So, that is fine. Not defensive in the least...and my Red Foot tortoise is actually almost 45 years old so I guess she is managing. Blessings to all of you and your babies. I am getting off of this forum. Don't need this

 

[Minority2]

I was only using the treat thing as an example because of his comment. That is fine if you choose not to give your dogs treats. I personally bake mine and they aren't store bought and my dog loves them (along with love and affection). I never claimed to be an expert but obviously the people on here do. So, that is fine. Not defensive in the least...and my Red Foot tortoise is actually almost 45 years old so I guess she is managing. Blessings to all of you and your babies. I am getting off of this forum. Don't need this

I'll use another example to explain how a tortoise's age does not necessarily result in proper care. Zoos often take in and raise different species of tortoises. Many of these tortoises can range from 2-100+ years old. Not all zoos use the same caring protocols. Many of them are still operating with outdated information such as low humidity and diets heavily reliant on generic "reptile branded" products. Once again this is not an example of proper care but is supporting evidence as to how hardy tortoises as a species really are.

Your tortoise is over 44 years old. It's highly likely that your tortoise has experienced similar outdated practices such as being fed cat food, pellet substrate, sand substrates, and low humidity levels just to name a few. Those practices were heavily recommended during the 70s-90s. That was what I was originally taught when I had my first tortoise as a child back in the 90s.

 

[Tom]

I am getting off of this forum. Don't need this

Will you explain to me why you find this conversation unsupportive and so negative that you now want to leave? We are all just making polite conversation, sharing our thoughts, ideas and experiences regarding what we think is the best tortoise care and why. No one has been mean or insulting. Some of us disagree with some parts of the advice you offered and assertions you made. We pointed out or disagreements and explained why. Isn't that how this whole forum thing is supposed to work? You can tell me why you think fruit is fine for sulcatas, and I can tell you why I think it is not, and everyone reading can learn from our respectful conversation.

What is the problem? Why do you want to leave? I don't want to be on a forum where everyone just agrees with everyone else so that no one gets hurt feelings. I want people to argue, explain, and hash out their disagreements. That is where I find the most learning occurs. If I say the wrong thing, I'm glad that people call me out and with make explain it further, or explain to me why I'm wrong. These discussions further tortoise knowledge and make me and anyone reading better tortoise keepers. Perhaps you feel differently?

 

[Bdelag7389]

Ok, I need some major advice, I know to feed the baby some grass, he has heat, he has a humid hide, he has access to water, I just need some advice on the BEST food to give it daily, (im not a pro so please dont use some fancy words, break it down for me!) Please tell me a good daily food, and a good treat. He is indoors because I dont have an enclosed patio, how often should I soak him? He escaped from my neighbors house (hes a backyard breeder) And he just let me have it. Of course, I have been doing some major research, and I know about the no tank stuff. Whats a good (and cheap) food I can get for him? He wont eat, but the egg sac? I am not sure about the age, as my neighbor has been on vacation for a while. He is a little bit bigger than a quarter I dont have a ruler. But id say about 2 inches? maybe 2 1/2 inches at most. I know about feeding him grass. But I live in AZ so I dont have access to grass in my front/back yard. I have a park but im not sure about the pesticides.

Anyways, the major questions I have are:
Whats a good combination of food I can feed him everyday?

How long should I soak him (I'd say hes about 1-2 weeks old.)

How often should I soak him?

Also he isn't eating but he has that little sac thing (a very, very small bit of it) left on him.

What are signs I should look for of him being sick?

Should I let him outside to run around at the park for a bit everyday?

How much do I feed him?

How do I get him to eat?

(Sorry I just want him to grow up and be a cute lil healthy dude. I just want to be sure he is as healthy as possible.!)

 

[Bdelag7389]

Congratulations on getting the new Tort they are a wonderful pet. I have attached some PDF files on Tort food two volumes, Plants not to feed torts, building housing for a tort, how to stop ants from bugging your tort and raiding their food, and what may be the cause of pyramiding for a Sulcata Tort. I am sure this well help it sure has helped me and my 2 Torts. Enjoy your tort baby. Brent

 

[2wgasa]

DIET OF SULCATA TORTOISES
The phrase used most commonly by sulcata owners to describe their tortoises is “eating machine.” Sulcatas graze and forage for hours during the day. In captivity, they need to be able to graze on pesticide- and herbicide-free grasses and weeds.

First, an attribution for DIET OF SULCATA TORTOISES. (https://www.medvetforpets.com/sulcata-tortoise-background-care-recommendations/)
Unless the vet is with medvetforpets, s/he might have found the same by googling.

Anyhoo, @Rosiegirl don't leave. Caring for an adult sulcata, or any sulcata, is new to me and TFO has been invaluable. And I haven't left even after reading comments that my geriatric dogs might hurt Bomber or his walking through our cottage could be dangerous to him (no comments, please). Can some member responses seem abrupt? Yes, but I think it's because they care so much (won't say anything about Melania). In fact, I'm often surprised about the detail provided when it would be easier to just say search the forum because it's been asked before. Ok, that's the end of my endorsement. G'Day.

 

[Tom]

Congratulations on getting the new Tort they are a wonderful pet. I have attached some PDF files on Tort food two volumes, Plants not to feed torts, building housing for a tort, how to stop ants from bugging your tort and raiding their food, and what may be the cause of pyramiding for a Sulcata Tort. I am sure this well help it sure has helped me and my 2 Torts. Enjoy your tort baby. Brent

This website you are linking here is literally 18+ years old. Some of the diet info is okay, but the pyramiding info is straight out wrong. That is all the old wrong info that kept us in the dark and prevented solving the problem for more than two decades.

The info here on this forum is current, up to date, and constantly changing as we learn more and make adjustments to our care for our tortoises and the advice we give based on that first hand experience.

I would politely request that you link and direct people to the info found here on TFO rather than divert them to antiquated incorrect info on other sites. Please.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

I've been wrong lots of times. @Will has busted me many times, and I learn from it each time. I don't hate Will and leave the forum. I thank the man for taking the time to correct my ignorance time and time again. Same for quite a few other members.

It's symbiotic.

 

[C. Nelson]

Tractor supply sells orchard grass pellets. Just soak them and you are good to go.

Wow! Thank you for this tip. I'll on my way to pick some up.

 

[DeanS]

Once the sac is gone...try this

https://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/tortoise-lasagne.19944/

or this...

https://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/tortoise-meatballs.39021/

Also get him started early on cuttlebone and cactus...don't waste your money on the calcium powder w/ D3