Tom's response to "Garden State Tortoise" Video

[Tom]

I don't understand why outdoor enclosures in areas that have naturally sandy soils are acceptable, but if someone scoops that up and puts it in their inside enclosure it's suddenly a death sentence?

No one in this entire thread has said either one of those things.

Sometimes tortoises in captive conditions with naturally sandy soil DO get impacted and die, but its definitely not an automatic death sentence. Indoors it poses more of a problem because of the smaller size of the tortoises, and because nearly every meal will end up with sandy substrate stuck to it.

 

[Tom]

This thread is interesting and entertaining. But what it isn't, is filled with proof of what the main posters are arguing.
First, no one has a clue what others know or have seen.
Second, the stuff found on the internet has to be taken with a grain of salt. Yes, certain sites can be reliable, but important info can either be left out, not tested or construed by the reader.
Real hands/eyes on proof is really the only proof you really have.
So, the two of you, @S2G and @Tom and anyone else with hands/eyes on proof should should try to get that proof and post it.
Anyone can say anything. Backing it up with hardcore proof is another story!

For the side if this argument opposing my stance, you expect there to be evidence and studies done on something that they say doesn't and isn't happening? Why would any such thing exist?

For evidence of sand impaction, call a tortoise vet and ask for X-rays and case studies. I've never saved any of this material because I never imagined I would have to defend what I've seen to a bunch of people who should know darn well that its true.

If someone out there wants to F___ around with sand and find out, they are free to do so. In the mean time, I will not, and will not be recommending others do.

 

[wellington]

For the side if this argument opposing my stance, you expect there to be evidence and studies done on something that they say doesn't and isn't happening? Why would any such thing exist?

For evidence of sand impaction, call a tortoise vet and ask for X-rays and case studies. I've never saved any of this material because I never imagined I would have to defend what I've seen to a bunch of people who should know darn well that its true.

If someone out there wants to F___ around with sand and find out, they are free to do so. In the mean time, I will not, and will not be recommending others do.

No, all I expected were xrays to be posted. Of course those that don't believe it's a problem, likely wouldn't be happy with one X-ray, but I don't think a butt load of X-rays would satisfy them either.
Sadly they don't understand the difference in "in the wild" and being "captive". Also that if it's not "needed" to maintain the health of a tortoise, but can cause "damage" then why use it.
I know my tortoises and yours will not be impacted by sand. Unfortunately not everyone can say that.

 

[wellington]

Yes, I would prefer to see some research articles compared to what evidence has been seen here previously. So if you have some to back up your claims keep them coming!

Unfortunately there isn't even enough, if any, proper care sheets out there, I doubt there is any studies.
Even if there were, would they cover all the aspects of the way the tortoise was cared for.
The simple answer is do not use it, it offers no benefits, but does offer potential for impaction and death.

 

[Tim Carlisle]

Unfortunately there isn't even enough, if any, proper care sheets out there, I doubt there is any studies.
Even if there were, would they cover all the aspects of the way the tortoise was cared for.
The simple answer is do not use it, it offers no benefits, but does offer potential for impaction and death.

Seems you and I see eye to eye on that point. It's like the whole concept of tortoise biology / physiology is in its infancy.