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What To Do About Pics Of Inappropriate Tortoise Practices?

Discussion in 'Debatable Topics' started by Tom, Oct 6, 2015.

  1. Will

    Will Well-Known Member 5 Year Member

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    Knowing and still doing wrong is the definition of a f***tard, so say all my rebellious friends who find it important to know exactly what these slang terms mean. Apparently it is not a contraction of f*** and retard. I am so grammatically challenged.
    leigti and AnimalLady like this.
  2. LibbyCecil

    LibbyCecil New Member

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    I'm a "newbie" and this is all very intimidating.
  3. wellington

    wellington Well-Known Member Moderator 5 Year Member

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    Why? What is intimidating? This thread or the forum in itself? And why on both accounts?
  4. LibbyCecil

    LibbyCecil New Member

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    This thread specifically. I just felt anxiety reading it lol.
    I love the forum and I am so very happy to have found it, I believe my hachling is and will continue to thrive mainly because I have joined this forum. :)
    Cowboy_Ken likes this.
  5. Alaskamike

    Alaskamike Well-Known Member

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    Divergent ideas , conflicts in perspective , confrontation and justification make many people anxious. But without the freedom to express ourselves and debate issues none of us can expand perspective and knowledge.

    Having a " debatable " thread area inproves us all.

    The. Great thing is , each person can decide for themselves where to participate and where not to -

    Good fortune with your hatchling.
  6. SteveW

    SteveW Well-Known Member

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    So I missed this bit, apparently. Why (moderators) would these posts be deleted? Yes, there is disagreement but it is on the debatable section. What is more relevant to the sharing of knowledge than determining how someone came by that knowledge?
    When I showed up with some (minor) differences of opinion, Wellington (a moderator, I gather) wasted no time in asking me. This was an appropriate response then and to this new member at least, appropriate now.
    I don't think it completely discounts someone's opinion if it based on other species, but it does pay to weigh accordingly.
    Someone, somewhere in this thread said there are no experts or something to that effect. That may or may not be true but I'd vote for firsthand experience being the nearest approximation.
    Tom and Team Gomberg like this.
  7. Yvonne G

    Yvonne G Old Timer TFO Admin 10 Year Member! Platinum Supporter

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    Because they were sniping back and forth at each other and not adding anything constructive to the thread.
  8. Alaskamike

    Alaskamike Well-Known Member

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    Dear Yvonne , To me " sniping " is more like ...
    " you're a poopy head "
    " no you are!"
    "Am not !"
    "are so !"
    " well you're just dumb "
    " but rocks know more than you do !"
    Etc.

    If a member gets their dander up and digresses to ad hominem attack - well okay. Knock it off.

    But.
    Challenging someone on their ideas , opinion , experience, attitude - especially with detailed explanation ( which is what I see ) is not sniping. It's explaining and justifying.

    The readers of the posts are free to agree or disagree , read or not read , and make up their own minds. To me this is not off topic at all.

    We have been discussing comments , suggestions, and assumptions from posted pictures. Including requests for advice, or when advice is not asked for but given anyway.

    I'm learning. I think others are too. " constructive" is a matter of opinion. And my opinion is debate with extensive explanation is healthy.
    Tortoisefan, TexTorts, Tom and 5 others like this.
  9. Turtlepete

    Turtlepete Well-Known Member

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    Not to mention important. I generally consider it pertinent to point out someones complete lack of experience when they speak as an authority on a subject. Book knowledge isn't a substitute for real life experience, and it certainly doesn't give you a green card to argue with those who actually have it….Which seems to be the root of this "sniping".

    Well-said, Mike.
    TexTorts and Tom like this.
  10. Will

    Will Well-Known Member 5 Year Member

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    In school they call this debating the person and not the topic. If you have no arguments with the information provided, but don't find the nature of how it is communicated or dislike the communicator you point out issues with the messenger, not the message. It's called a 'straw man' argument. Lawyers are expert at it, as are politicians. The opposite too, you like someone or the way they present a message, and even if the content is poor you agree with it, as 'respect' to the messenger, not the message.
  11. SteveW

    SteveW Well-Known Member

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    Only idiots use ad hominem attacks :)
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  12. SteveW

    SteveW Well-Known Member

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    I see your point, but in a big picture , meta-discussion sort of way, they really were, particularly as to the OP's original question. How, indeed to correct a mistake, particularly a really bad one when authority itself is in question.

    My suggestion is to qualify the information and describe the source. For example, when I post a picture of my Russian tortoise aquatic tank, Tom can tell me that he has raised a ton of them and that's not how to do it. Ascot may say she has other species and that's not how to do it. Wellington might say as a long time forum member, she's seen a lot of Russian set ups and that's not how to do it.
    I, of course may say I've just conferred with Pet Empire and the employees are on my side. That's none of the aforementioneds problem, and they have held serve in insuring other folks see bad husbandry addressed. Anyway, just a thought

    * Note - no Russian tortoises were harmed in the belaboring of this point.
    Tortoisefan, Tom, TexTorts and 2 others like this.
  13. Will

    Will Well-Known Member 5 Year Member

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    Steve is correct ad hominem is attacking the messenger not the message, straw man is refuting an argument not presented to avoid dealing with the real/primary argument. They might not be idiots, but just deceitful people, though with an emo thingy, maybe that's the ironic point.
    SteveW likes this.
  14. SteveW

    SteveW Well-Known Member

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    Will, you see right through me and my emo thingys. :)
    Will likes this.
  15. TexTorts

    TexTorts Member

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    As somewhat of a Newbie myself-- I would want as much information as I could get in order to foster healthy and long-surviving animals. If you get "butt-hurt" over the constructive comments made by one or more members with more experience and/or knowledge, I believe you should take a step back and restrospect on why are you got into and are raising torts and why are you on a forum to begin with.

    Straight and honest information has led to our having many healthy animals. Things read and learned on the internet have been debated and either proven true or negated for us. The newbies that join the forum will either learn from the information given by members or simply leave (which is sad).

    This practice of information give and take differentiates the "pet owners" from the "pet lovers". I have seen an abundance of both. Your practices and voice can foster either one and set you apart! I would assume all are on this forum because they "love" their babies.

    This can be done with respect- but, don't be such a soft touch that the animal is in danger because one or more of us are afraid we are going to hurt someone's feelings and didn't speak up. Remember, it's ultimately about the animal. They are such incredible animals! Let's work together to foster greatness in their very long lives!
  16. mike taylor

    mike taylor Well-Known Member 5 Year Member

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    Word your stuff nicely and tell them the reason why you can't keep doing whatever it was .
  17. Bogie=babyDINO

    Bogie=babyDINO Active Member

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    Right? I feel like that's all people need to do. Be nice to each other. If you correct them politely and they still get mad that's not on you.
  18. CharlieM

    CharlieM Well-Known Member 5 Year Member

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    I belong to a Facebook group that has the following rules:

    1) keep it friendly at all times
    2) don't give advice unless asked
    3) no judging anyone
    4) nobody owes anyone an explanation
    5) save the lectures for a pm or a phone call
    6) respect each other and their opinions.

    I'm not saying this is correct but it's food for thought...
    Turtlepete likes this.
  19. wellington

    wellington Well-Known Member Moderator 5 Year Member

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    A couple of these I see tortoises suffering. Like #2, you might not get another chance or they may not know they are dong bad for their tort #5 although I don't think anyone needs to actually lecture, and #4, that's true, but if you can't back up what you say with something, then I sure hope no one believes you.
    Is this Facebook group for animals? If not, there's a big difference when an animal is involved. If it is, the tortoise Facebook your talking about, I have heard bad things about them, like still giving bad advice and doing things wrong
    Prairie Mom likes this.
  20. Alaskamike

    Alaskamike Well-Known Member

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    I understand why these guidelines might be appropriate in some forums. But here we are a place of information and education.
    I would take issue with 2,3 & 4.
    Advice is needed and necessary asked or not when an animals well being is involved.

    Judging is nothing more than weighing the facts and drawing a conclusion

    And when advice is given we do owe an explanation. Additionally , if I post a picture of my dog next to a tortoise , I should explain how I keep my tortoise safe from him - so new keepers don't get the idea this is common practice and safe.

    There is a presumptive purpose in the tortoise forum that differs from others; people join and participate to share "best care " practices , solve problems, share success as well as failure.

    I NEED information , advice, suggestions, and education. There are plenty of places to merely share cute pictures and get pats on the back. Being a better tortoise keeper is my goal for participating in this forum.

    And I make a presumption it is the goal of participants here also.
    TexTorts, leigti and wellington like this.
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