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My buddy just got a welsh corgi, cool lil dog. Stumpy lil legs are cute, he is very personable and sweet.
Considering a German shepherd
- Thread starter thatrebecca
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My aunt and her family have a Pembroke welsh corgi. They are great dogs, but take my advice: if its male and you don't plan on breeding or showing for conformation, get him neutered!! They are more aggressive, jumpy, and less well behaved before neutering. They made the mistake of waiting 4 years for no purpose. Now that he's neutered, he is the most sweet natured, loving, cuddly dog. It is a complete transition from before.q
Leopard Tortoise Lover 16199 said:
This could be a whole topic in itself. I'm am a strong proponent of responsible dog ownership, but I am not a fan of the neuter-everything- all-the-time crowd. Behavioral issues are not caused or prevented by the absence or presence of testicles. Some of my worst dog aggression cases have been dogs that were neutered early on, and likewise I have no trouble mixing large numbers of intact dogs without issue. Training and fostering the right relationship is the solution to dog behavior problems. Not surgery or drugs.
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Re: RE: Considering a German shepherd
Kinda furthering your thought Tom, what is your opinion on neutering/spaying as a health benefit? I have always been told and believed that by neutering/spaying, that it severely lessens the likelihood of cancers based on removing the hormones and such. Always seemed reasonable to me, but I'm fairly uneducated in those things. What's your take on that?
Tom said:
Kinda furthering your thought Tom, what is your opinion on neutering/spaying as a health benefit? I have always been told and believed that by neutering/spaying, that it severely lessens the likelihood of cancers based on removing the hormones and such. Always seemed reasonable to me, but I'm fairly uneducated in those things. What's your take on that?
I support spaying/neutering of course. But then, I've worked in the shelter/rescue side of things. So I suppose it goes without saying.
I also do not believe that we should be encouraging the average pet owner to not spay or neuter. And my own opinion is that it does curb behavior problems (what we view as a problem) in dogs, especially male dogs.
I also do not believe that we should be encouraging the average pet owner to not spay or neuter. And my own opinion is that it does curb behavior problems (what we view as a problem) in dogs, especially male dogs.
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How about a Herdenschutzhund? Nothing like a Border Collie, but I mean the ones that were bred to protect herds from predators like wolves and bears. Some are maybe too territorial and independent among them, but I remember the Polski Owczarek Podhalanski of friends of my parents who was awesome. If I remember correctly, they are very protective but at the same time are not easily provoked to attack. And they do not tend to hunt. They do need a consequent training though. Do you have them in the US? But for this breed too, I think they are prone to hip problems and you have to get a good breeder.
TommyZ said:
There is a 100% reduction in the risk of testicular cancer in a neutered male. Outside of that, I still see dogs, whether neutered or not, get all sorts of other cancers.
Same for females with uterine or ovarian cancers.
What most of the spay-neuter crowd uses to promote their agenda is the behavior and health benefits. I have not seen the behavior benefits except in the case where males (neutered or not) are sharing a household with an intact female. Spaying such a female does reduce the male angst in such a household. I don't mind spaying females as much, especially in cases like this.
What seems to never be talked about is the down sides of neutering. There is growing evidence and studies underway about the negative effects of neutering dogs. Loss of muscle tone, increased risk of ACL tears or separations, obesity, increased risk of gastric torsion, loss of drive for working dogs, etc. I don't have the studies in front of me. This is word of mouth from some of the vets working on the studies that I know. I'm sure an internet search could turn up all sort of evidence to promote either cause. I am simply sharing my observations and experience here.
To be clear: I'm not saying to not neuter a dog. I am not saying TO neuter a dog either. I am saying that the spay-neuter crowd has an agenda and they are not being entirely truthful and forthcoming with what they use to promote their agenda. The health and behavioral benefits that they use to promote their agenda are VERY overstated, and they ignore the potential downsides. I find their agenda to be a noble one: Reduce the amount of irresponsible breeding and number of unwanted pups that end up in the shelters. This is great and I am on their side with this. I also preach responsible dog ownership to any one I can. I just don't appreciate the dishonest tactics. I tell people to neuter if they want to, but don't expect it to solve behavior problems, and make sure your dog stays well exercised and doesn't get fat. Neutered dogs have more of a tendency to get fat with people who free feed their dogs. Another practice I don't recommend.
In short, neutering is not a way to solve behavioral problems, and while it DOES reduce the risk of one type of cancer, it also has added health risks associated with it, not to mention the surgical risks. Ever seen a dog with an infected scrotum after neutering? I have. I like the message. I just don't like the dishonesty used to push the message. I vote that we all encourage responsible dog ownership and just tell the truth about the various strategies to accomplish this.
There are pros and cons to everything....
I'm not dishonest. I'll come out and tell you. Straight out.....I push spay/neuter because I spent time working in animal shelters. Period. No dishonesty here. I also believe anyone wanting to buy a dog should have to spend a week behind the scenes at an animal shelter. Then, if you still want to buy go for it.
I'm not dishonest. I'll come out and tell you. Straight out.....I push spay/neuter because I spent time working in animal shelters. Period. No dishonesty here. I also believe anyone wanting to buy a dog should have to spend a week behind the scenes at an animal shelter. Then, if you still want to buy go for it.
lisa127 said:
So have I. So did my wife. So did/does both of my two mentors who taught me all I know about dogs and training, so does one of my good friends. Two of the above are current ACOs. I know all about what goes on in shelters. I have first and second hand experience with that.
It still does not mean that behavioral and health problems will be solved by neutering, and it still does not mean that neutering doesn't have its own risks, and it still doesn't mean you can't be a responsible pet owner with an intact dog.
This has gone off topic. If anyone wishes to discuss this further, we should do it in another thread of our own. Apologies to the OP.
I'm sure you do know what goes on in shelters. I never doubted that.
There's no need for starting another thread as I do not think anyone really values my opinion on the topic...lol.
I agree with a lot of what you've said, but I still favor encouraging spay/neuter. Always will.
There's no need for starting another thread as I do not think anyone really values my opinion on the topic...lol.
I agree with a lot of what you've said, but I still favor encouraging spay/neuter. Always will.
Tom said:
THANK YOU TOM!!!! My intact males go to the dog park frequently. Zero issues.
Nothing replaces good breeding, socialization, well-structured lifestyle, and lots of exercise. [SMILING FACE WITH SMILING EYES]
As a prospective dog owner, it's all interesting to me. No worries about going off topic. And I'm especially loving the pictures and stories about your dogs. Thanks, everybody! You have some beautiful animals out there!
Ok, I had to show off my Dexter. [GRINNING FACE WITH SMILING EYES]
He is my breeding, well on his way to show and field champion. And consummate snuggler....TOM! Oi vay, some people. [SMILING FACE WITH SMILING EYES]
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I beg to differ with you Tom. The average, and even above average, pet owner can't handle a whole male as well as a neutered male. Of course I do see exceptions, but they are few and far between.
I do disagree with early neutering. But 8-10 months on small breeds and maybe 12 -15 months for larger breeds. Before testosterone makes them go off in a different direction. Once the testosterone related problems set in, neutering does not help much.
As a groomer, I have often threatened to charge more for un neutered male dogs. They are simply more difficult for me to work on. And I have actually sent really impossible whole dogs packing. Not for aggression, either, but for being too amorous and so sexually frustrated as to make grooming them on the ridiculous side. Whole males in the hands of most pet owners, for the most part, make for a major PITA. They are far more likely to show aggression than a neutered male dog. And they definitely want to mark much more, and often just pee all over the dang place including all over the inside of my shop, and IN the kennel they are temporarily housed in!
Unneutered females present their own set of problems. More for the poor girls themselves. They are a slave to their hormones and are often showing nervous behavior just before and or after their heat seasons. Not to mention pseudo pregnancy. Of which multiples can and often does, lead to life threatening pyometra.
The ONLY thing I hate in my profession, because of spay/neuter, is the change of haircoat that often happens. Mostly with doublecoats. They become like big walking brillo pads.
Which I don't groom many of any more... because of repetitive motion injuries
I do disagree with early neutering. But 8-10 months on small breeds and maybe 12 -15 months for larger breeds. Before testosterone makes them go off in a different direction. Once the testosterone related problems set in, neutering does not help much.
As a groomer, I have often threatened to charge more for un neutered male dogs. They are simply more difficult for me to work on. And I have actually sent really impossible whole dogs packing. Not for aggression, either, but for being too amorous and so sexually frustrated as to make grooming them on the ridiculous side. Whole males in the hands of most pet owners, for the most part, make for a major PITA. They are far more likely to show aggression than a neutered male dog. And they definitely want to mark much more, and often just pee all over the dang place including all over the inside of my shop, and IN the kennel they are temporarily housed in!
Unneutered females present their own set of problems. More for the poor girls themselves. They are a slave to their hormones and are often showing nervous behavior just before and or after their heat seasons. Not to mention pseudo pregnancy. Of which multiples can and often does, lead to life threatening pyometra.
The ONLY thing I hate in my profession, because of spay/neuter, is the change of haircoat that often happens. Mostly with doublecoats. They become like big walking brillo pads.
Which I don't groom many of any more... because of repetitive motion injuries
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Sulcata_Sandy said:
I'm not necessarily saying spaying or neutering makes a dog any better. It was just in this circumstance, it worked very well and significantly changed their dog's nature. I know of multiple dogs that aren't spayed or neutered and are wonderful dogs. Also, when neutering, wait at least 1 year. And for females, I heard you should let them go through their first heat. Of course, if you plan on showing or breeding your dog, neutering or spaying isn't an option. But in some cases like the dog I mentioned, it is a change for the better. But neutering in some dogs doesn't alter the personality at all.
Feel kinda bad that I had such a laugh at this....purely due to prior life experiences I am sure...
Not against all of the male "species" 
Hahaha what a sign. Lol
I have never had one but I remember my father telling me a story about the German Shepards while he was living in Germany. He had a Persian Cat named Hamilton who would walk in the park and the German Sheoards in the park were so well trained that they could walk off leash and completely ignore the cat, Hamilton. So from what my father tells me they are very obedient.
Hope this helps-Ben
Hope this helps-Ben
Beagle; once I was showing two of my Old English Bulldoggs and while doing so a fellow competitor also had a beagle and during the day that person realized they had a schedule conflict...so they asked me to handle/show their male Beagle...well, needless to say--that little SOB rolleyes decided that he would mark my leg just as we were going into the ring and oh wait out of the ring--r i diculous I tell you, so that breed is an undesirable breed after that....lol. He did take first however...
I have had two fantastic dogs in my life (I know, usually only truly one will happen in our lives) one was an Old English Bulldogg(who unfortunately died at 4 years, 4 months and 4 days of age---(can you tell he was the love of my life at that time, RIP Spike 09-23-95) and the other a Shep/Rott mix(man was Jake a patient sole around children, even when his goods were smashed flat by mistake from one of the kids stepping over him sleeping by the door)...neither were altered....both were tenacious and absolutely male---at that time in my life this personality suited me well....
I currently have my first ever female (was kinda weird at first, can't explain) and she is a basenji/cattle dog mix--so lets say, wild eyed in a split second--fast as lightning and a drive that will let her run strong for hours (at least 5 or 6 hours without ever breaking stride)....she will snap the neck of any little furry creature and keep going, absolutely nothing personal on her side---she is a fence jumper (6 foot fence--- just needs a few steps to easily clear it, she never jumped fences until I watched her watch a cat do it--so smart)..she was previously with a family member who has no business hosting a dog in any way shape or form---with them she was placed with multiple males who were yard dogs and she learned to keep them all in check....so she landed in our home vs the "last ride into the desert" from the wonderful family members....she is a wonderful dog in the house---she is a wonderful dog on her 100 foot tie out (yep, never will be able to 100% trust her alone in the yard, so this is for her own benefit) she scoffs at electric collars and she finds an invisible fence just that "invisible"....she is what I call an eternal high maintenance dog---but, in the house (where she shines) is a fair trade off for us, calm 99% of the time....we have accepted her strong and weak points and have created a world where she can shine....this is a dog that can be tied to a 30 foot long line and then run along side a vehicle for 3 hours at full run and never show a sign of tiring....so, there are absolutely rarities in every situation...she has found her forever home here and I appreciate her for exactly what she is. She absolutely has a Basenji --"nothing personal just doing my thing" character...and the cattle dog mix just fuels the run.
We have a male that was on his way to the pound because the people were bored of him...simple as that. He is a variable mix with suspicion of a few of the strong willed breeds....he is not altered and will not be....his personality is that if he were exposed to the stresses of the vet/surgery--he would never be the same dog--and I know this without a doubt....he has total trust with myself my son and my Mother... in my experience there are just too many negative variables that can take place the moment a secure and confident male dog enters a vets office to have his tenacity removed....from the fright of the dr office, to the vet tech, to the whole kennel cage, to the waking up from the sleep to know something is different/missing...the smells and the vibe and fear from the other dogs in the office...I just don't find the benefits outweighing the negative....I also have a yard that is made secure, so neither wander the desert...and he will not be a threat to unaltered females....this is my responsibility as his human...
Tom, I have shared time with altered as well as intact males....it is absolutely character of the dog that shines through....I have trained male intact dogs that have the calmest demeanor and have dealt with punk a%^ male neutered dogs that are the most problematic....but hey, I can only imagine the angst a male dog must experience when he realizes the humans are the ones last associated with the disappearance of his, well, goods. Talk about lack of trust
rolleyes decided that he would mark my leg just as we were going into the ring and oh wait out of the ring--r i diculous I tell you, so that breed is an undesirable breed after that....lol. He did take first however...I have had two fantastic dogs in my life (I know, usually only truly one will happen in our lives) one was an Old English Bulldogg(who unfortunately died at 4 years, 4 months and 4 days of age---(can you tell he was the love of my life at that time, RIP Spike 09-23-95) and the other a Shep/Rott mix(man was Jake a patient sole around children, even when his goods were smashed flat by mistake from one of the kids stepping over him sleeping by the door)...neither were altered....both were tenacious and absolutely male---at that time in my life this personality suited me well....
I currently have my first ever female (was kinda weird at first, can't explain) and she is a basenji/cattle dog mix--so lets say, wild eyed in a split second--fast as lightning and a drive that will let her run strong for hours (at least 5 or 6 hours without ever breaking stride)....she will snap the neck of any little furry creature and keep going, absolutely nothing personal on her side---she is a fence jumper (6 foot fence--- just needs a few steps to easily clear it, she never jumped fences until I watched her watch a cat do it--so smart)..she was previously with a family member who has no business hosting a dog in any way shape or form---with them she was placed with multiple males who were yard dogs and she learned to keep them all in check....so she landed in our home vs the "last ride into the desert" from the wonderful family members....she is a wonderful dog in the house---she is a wonderful dog on her 100 foot tie out (yep, never will be able to 100% trust her alone in the yard, so this is for her own benefit) she scoffs at electric collars and she finds an invisible fence just that "invisible"....she is what I call an eternal high maintenance dog---but, in the house (where she shines) is a fair trade off for us, calm 99% of the time....we have accepted her strong and weak points and have created a world where she can shine....this is a dog that can be tied to a 30 foot long line and then run along side a vehicle for 3 hours at full run and never show a sign of tiring....so, there are absolutely rarities in every situation...she has found her forever home here and I appreciate her for exactly what she is. She absolutely has a Basenji --"nothing personal just doing my thing" character...and the cattle dog mix just fuels the run.
We have a male that was on his way to the pound because the people were bored of him...simple as that. He is a variable mix with suspicion of a few of the strong willed breeds....he is not altered and will not be....his personality is that if he were exposed to the stresses of the vet/surgery--he would never be the same dog--and I know this without a doubt....he has total trust with myself my son and my Mother... in my experience there are just too many negative variables that can take place the moment a secure and confident male dog enters a vets office to have his tenacity removed....from the fright of the dr office, to the vet tech, to the whole kennel cage, to the waking up from the sleep to know something is different/missing...the smells and the vibe and fear from the other dogs in the office...I just don't find the benefits outweighing the negative....I also have a yard that is made secure, so neither wander the desert...and he will not be a threat to unaltered females....this is my responsibility as his human...
Tom, I have shared time with altered as well as intact males....it is absolutely character of the dog that shines through....I have trained male intact dogs that have the calmest demeanor and have dealt with punk a%^ male neutered dogs that are the most problematic....but hey, I can only imagine the angst a male dog must experience when he realizes the humans are the ones last associated with the disappearance of his, well, goods. Talk about lack of trust
