CURRENT MARKET VALUE

[ALDABRAMAN]

Most active TFO members are familar with our aldabra breeding program. We have 3.7 adults with a great fertility record. I was recently contacted and offered a very generous amount for our aldabra colony. I declined the offer for several reasons. Without further disclosures, my question to our members is: What would be a fair market value for our colony, and how did you determine that amount?
I initiated a poll for the first part and hope each voter would explain the second part of the question in the comment section of this thread. Thanks to all members who participate.

 

[ripper7777777]

Personally I have no idea what it would be worth, but it looks like a dream come true to me and dreams are priceless.

 

[Tom]

I don't think a monetary price can be put on what you have accomplished there. Its not about money. What is happening at your place is magic. It has been a labor of love for you and it is successful due to your passion for it. If those animals got moved, they might even stop breeding. Maybe temporarily, and maybe longer.

I think the combination of elements that have all come together at your place is worth a million dollars, but there is no reasonable way to get a return on that investment in a human lifetime. I think I would advise the person to simply start buying up individuals and attempt to duplicate what you have got going there. Some things just cannot be bought. They can only be had with time, effort, and lots of luck. I think your prospective buyer needs to follow in your footsteps if he/she wants what you have, rather than try to buy it. Only THAT will give it the true meaning that it has for you.

And I feel compelled to thank you again for so openly sharing this with all of us. As ripper expressed, your life is a dream that many of us aspire to. So many of us would love to be in a place like yours, with a facility and animals like that. It is a dream that is out of reach for many people, or at least a long way off. Your pics and time spent sharing it with the group here is the only way some of us will experience something so pure and magical. THANK YOU.

 

[dmarcus]

I choose the over $200,000 only because I have seen the hachling going for $2,000 each at reptile shows and they didn't look as good as yours. Depending on how much that other person was planning on selling the hatchlings for they would be the only ones benefiting from this. I think your females alone are worth more than that and thats my opionion...


Glad you said no!!!

 

[Neal]

Nothing else considered, if they were mine, I wouldn't sell the group for less than $300,000. It's rare to see adults for sale of a lot of different tortoise species, so it's difficult to determine what the market value is sometimes.

Something I do when considering purchasing an adult pair is find out how many hatchlings they are producing per season and multiply that by the current market value of the hatchlings, since it's a lot easier to determine the market value of hatchlings than adults in most cases.

Example: Say I am looking for a pair of leopard tortoises. I find a pair that produces 20 hatchlings a season (all these numbers are arbitrary). The average selling price for a hatchling leopard is $120. So, I would be willing to pay $2,400 for the pair. In reality, leopards are a lot easier to come by than aldabras, so depending on what else is available the $2,400 would probably be the higher end of the spectrum that I would pay for a pair, but it gives me an idea of when I would receive a return on my investment, and a single season is really no time at all.

Your group is a little lopsided, but female heavy. So, just considering the females...say you get 30 hatchlings a season from each one...average selling price is $1,000 lets say...with just the females you could potential earn $210,000 a year/season. Can't have hatchlings without the males, so add a bit more for the males, and considering that we all know you take good care of your aldabras, so they are very healthy, on top of being rare, I think you could offer a little more than others, so a nice round number would be $300,000.

You obviously care a lot about your animals, and we are all glad you said no.

 

[SulcataSquirt]

I chose over $200,000 for the same reasons as stated above, I don't think money can justify everything that you've accomplished there and the healthy tortoises you have raised. You have such a great established program going and I don't think you can put a price on that. Also, glad you said no and thank you for sharing everything you do with us.

 

[StudentoftheReptile]

Ditto what Tom and SulcataSquirt said.

I know very little about aldabras (except that they get huge, and awesome!), and even I can tell that what you have there on your property is priceless. I mean, the ONLY reason I would even consider any offers (if I were in your shoes) were if I were just absolutely tired of keeping tortoises and wanted out of the hobby....well, that and possibly any hypothetical catastrophic medical needs for you or a family member. I don't think either of those scenarios is the case, so it would take a sum significantly more than $200,000 to ponder about it.

 

[nikki0601]

I agree with the above, this is the dream for alot of keepers, it is my dream, u could put a market value on the land and each animal and the added value would be great but u can't put a price on a dream, I bet if I had a million dollars I couldnt buy this from u

 

[DeanS]

I know a Galap colony would fetch an astronomical price...so it only stands to reason that their only competitors in the Giant Tortoise Race not be far behind! Yours are probably the best kept animals I've ever seen. I can think of quite a few zoos that could learn a thing or two from you! Anything else I have to add would essentially be quoting Tom...your colony would easily hit a million...based solely on what the prospective buyer would make back on hatchlings in one year alone...provided they breed for anyone else

 

[Tony the tank]

Well that would be tough to gauge... Based on the fact of potential income from the breeding program... How long would it take to get up and running again, how much it would cost to replace your healthy producing breeding stock, potential market value of offsprings now vs the future, value of your time , and potential income lost to get back to where you are in production

Then you need to speculate potential earning for the next few yrs..based on the economy now and what you expect to see from the economy in the next few yrs....(<-this ones a though one)..

 

[yagyujubei]

The amount of buyers for these is very low. Buyers for the entire group, substantially less. I think that they're worth whatever someone is willing to pay for them. In a must sell scenario the price realized would be substantially less than, for instance, selling them singly at your leisure. You can't, for instance, figure a price for each, add them all together, and hope to get that amount from one buyer. Look at that little Galop that has been for sale for so long now. It's been at least two years, and I believe the price is now $7500. What's it worth?

 

[StudentoftheReptile]

The amount of buyers for these is very low. Buyers for the entire group, substantially less. I think that they're worth whatever someone is willing to pay for them. In a must sell scenario the price realized would be substantially less than, for instance, selling them singly at your leisure. You can't, for instance, figure a price for each, add them all together, and hope to get that amount from one buyer. Look at that little Galop that has been for sale for so long now. It's been at least two years, and I believe the price is now $7500. What's it worth?

Good point. Dreams and investments aside, something is only what someone is willing to pay for it.

I'm currently downsizing my snake collection and I'm selling animals for less than what I think they're really worth! But that's the risk in dealing with a niche market. Prices drop over time, and often times, you're lucky to get what you paid for the animal initially, regardless that you've had it for X yrs and raised it up to breeding size.

But I still stand by my first post. Unless you were just REALLY hard-up for money and/or were more than ready to retire from keeping giant tortoises, I would value your colony there much more than $200,000.

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

Personally I have no idea what it would be worth, but it looks like a dream come true to me and dreams are priceless.

A-man, this would be my answer, too.

---

I choose the over $200,000 only because I have seen the hachling going for $2,000 each at reptile shows and they didn't look as good as yours. Depending on how much that other person was planning on selling the hatchlings for they would be the only ones benefiting from this. I think your females alone are worth more than that and thats my opionion...


Glad you said no!!!

This sums it up for me, as well.

 

[JeffG]

Unfortunately you can't price them too much more than the other producing colonies that are for sale. Oh wait, are there any other colonies for sale? I am guessing that you would pretty much be setting the current market value if you sold them.

There is the 2.10 Galop herd is that has been for sale forever, and I don't know anything about the quality of the animals, but I believe they are 25-30 years old and under? Those were $238,000 the last time I checked. Not a very good apples to apples comparison, but maybe the closest thing on the public market currently.

 

[dmmj]

quick note to jeff G : from what I have heard is that group lets say producing ability has been greatly exaggerated, just what I have heard from other galap owners,so take it with a grain of salt maybe ( the hearsay of their ability)

As for the cost and not to sound to mushy here, but you can't really put a price on your dreams, which I consider this set up to be for me anyways. You have a great group and set up, and you seem to do well selling them, .Personally I would have set the price so high I voted above 200G that they would probably not pay it, you honestly cannot set a price on your dreams.

And not to sound mean but lets say I had a breeding group of russians and I decide to sell them for what ever reasons, I could always set up another group down the road if i chose to do so, with aldabs I imagine it would be difficult to do so, and not cheaply either. I for one am glad you turned them down for 2 reason 1) because I truly enjoy your pictures of your group. and 2) I still have to come and work there when and if you decide to expand.

 

[jaizei]

I think anymore than $500,000 would be too much risk for the cost. I figure if you get approximately 50 hatchlings per year @ $2000 per hatchling, the break even would be in year 6 or 7 depending on other costs.

 

[fbsmith3]

In all honesty, I would also have to say over $200,00. To be fair, I would think you would have to sell the breeding colony with the house and enclosure. for these guys to continue as a viable colony, they would need to be in the exact same environment and moving them all would be costly and add a lot of stress to each animal and change them for a quite a while until they can get settled. Some may never adapt.

You have done such a spectacular job, anyone else would not be able to care for them in any way as well as you have.

Sorry of this seems harsh, but I know we all think of the animals welfare.

 

[Gmoney]

fbsmith3 brings up a good point. Is it the animals themselves or the whole property?

If it's just the animals, I agree with the earlier post that the value depreciates from the individual cost of the animals. The buyer wouldn't be purely making an investment, but rather taking over a business that either themselves or employees would have to continue the upkeep. Also, you're being bought out, so you don't have the labor, upkeep, or the risk anymore. Furthermore, as eluded to earlier, it would take a lot of money to move the animals, establish enclosures, and the animals may not produce for an undeterminable amount of time.

If you're talking about the entire property, it's pretty much the opposite of those points. Property value aside, you should get higher than the individual price of the animal due the awesome established setup. Not to mention the displacement of anyone on the property. Assuming they receive similar care, the productivity shouldn't be hindered and they can immediately start to see a return on their investment.

This is obviously not taking into account how much the whole operation means to you. I can appreciate the sentiment a lot of members have, but you can totally put a price on your dreams. Lol

Also, I'm new here so I'm not familiar with your personal situation, which also carries a monetary factor. ie. If this is your livelihood or a hobby with returns.

 

[N2TORTS]

I don't think a monetary price can be put on what you have accomplished there. Its not about money. What is happening at your place is magic. It has been a labor of love for you and it is successful due to your passion for it. If those animals got moved, they might even stop breeding. Maybe temporarily, and maybe longer.

I think the combination of elements that have all come together at your place is worth a million dollars, but there is no reasonable way to get a return on that investment in a human lifetime. I think I would advise the person to simply start buying up individuals and attempt to duplicate what you have got going there. Some things just cannot be bought. They can only be had with time, effort, and lots of luck. I think your prospective buyer needs to follow in your footsteps if he/she wants what you have, rather than try to buy it. Only THAT will give it the true meaning that it has for you.

And I feel compelled to thank you again for so openly sharing this with all of us. As ripper expressed, your life is a dream that many of us aspire to. So many of us would love to be in a place like yours, with a facility and animals like that. It is a dream that is out of reach for many people, or at least a long way off. Your pics and time spent sharing it with the group here is the only way some of us will experience something so pure and magical. THANK YOU.

Excellent Tom......
Very Nicely Put! .....I second that statement

JD~

 

[bikerchicspain]

I voted for over 200,000
1. Because they are breeding pairs,
2. Because of their rare breed,
3. Because over the years you can make more just on babies,
4. The most important of all, they are family and family doesn't have a price!