Hibernation.

Gillian M

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Hi all. I've had Oli (my beloved Greek tort) :<3: for 5.5years. He only hibernated once since he's been here with me. I'd like to ask:

1) Is this normal, or must a tort hibernate in Winter? :confused:
2) Would the fact that he has not been hibernating, have any negative effects on him/his health?

I'd very much appreciated your advise/suggestions.:)

Thank you.:)
 

Jodie

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This is a hottly debated topic. Everyone has an opinion, but there is very little scientific evidence. There are strong good experiences both ways. My opinion is that if you are confident you can do it right, and want to, you should. If you are willing to put in the extra care to keep them up and healthy, and do not want to, then don't. Some tortoises are more difficult to keep awake then others. They should not be allowed to just sleep without the correct temps.
 

Speedy-1

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That sounds like the best advice you will get ! Speedy does not hibernate , so I have never thought much about it. Sorry I cant be of more help .
 

Tidgy's Dad

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I'm thinking of hibernating Tidgy this year, but i doubt I will.
Some say that if you don't hibernate your tortoise they might not live as long, but we don't know if this is true.
How do we know if they will live 100 years instead of 150 ?
Some hibernate their torts, others don't.
It's your choice.
 

Gillian M

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This is a hottly debated topic. Everyone has an opinion, but there is very little scientific evidence. There are strong good experiences both ways. My opinion is that if you are confident you can do it right, and want to, you should. If you are willing to put in the extra care to keep them up and healthy, and do not want to, then don't. Some tortoises are more difficult to keep awake then others. They should not be allowed to just sleep without the correct temps.
Thanks very much your helpful reply @Jodie .:)

I decided to post this thread because a member told me that a tort should hibernate so as to remain healthy. :confused: I have not seen any change in Oli's health, thank GOD. However, I did get worried after the said member's "advise." :( Know what I mean?
 

Gillian M

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I'm thinking of hibernating Tidgy this year, but i doubt I will.
Some say that if you don't hibernate your tortoise they might not live as long, but we don't know if this is true.
How do we know if they will live 100 years instead of 150 ?
Some hibernate their torts, others don't.
It's your choice.
Thanks your answer Adam.

Why do you doubt that Tidgy will hibernate? if I may ask.

Appreciate an answer.

Thanks very much.
 

Gillian M

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Because I probably will decide not to let her.
It's better for my peace of mind if she doesn't and I would miss her company.
Totally selfish, I know.

Oh no Adam, I don't think you are at all selfish. You LOVE Tidgy (just as much as I LOVE TWO OLIs! :<3:so you want her around.
 

tglazie

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This is a hotly debated topic, because like many hotly debated topics, it concerns risk. What is more risky, allowing the animals to stay awake in a fashion that might be unnatural, which some have argued could jeopardize an animal's health in the longterm, or allowing the animal to go into a brumation in which any number of things could go wrong, jeopardizing the animal's health in the short term? These are things that are, as of yet, undetermined. On the one hand, I've heard countless anecdotes concerning tortoises brought into the US following WWII, animals that were never hibernated and continue kicking around to this day. On the other, many of us have read the Highfield and Pursall books speaking to the dangers of failing to hibernate naturally hibernating animals. Who is right? To be honest, I can't be sure.

Keep in mind that many Mediterranean tortoises' ancestors existed in climates very different than the ones they occupy today. North African Testudo graeca evolved to exist on the fringes of oak forests that ran along the base of the Atlas Mountains, an area that has been overgrazed by livestock and cleared by agriculture for centuries now. What remains is this maquis scrubland on which the descendants of these animals eek out a foragers existence. Same can be said of Hermanns and many Greeks. The land on which their ancestors adapted has been radically changed, and yet they continue to survive in these regions, some more successfully than others. Additionally, things were quite different in these regions some mere ten thousand years ago, when glacial formations completely transformed the entire Mediterranean region, and the ancestors of these modern tortoises managed to survive that as well.

Bottom line, I believe that tortoises that hibernate in nature should hibernate in captivity, but this isn't a hard and fast rule. The Moroccan graeca is a perfect example of how some members of a particular regional group hibernate in the winter (as the montane populations do) while others some two hundred miles away don't (regarding the coastal populations). I've certainly forgone hibernation in animals I felt were too light or too sickly to hibernate, and I've never hibernated hatchlings, given my concern over their small size allowing for too much fluctuation in temperature. This practice has never resulted in a negative effect for me, and unlike some folks on the forum, I've never had the tragic misfortune of losing a tortoise during or shortly after hibernation. However, I can see this happening, and I most definitely sympathize with those who feel that hibernation is a risk with relatively little margin for error. Ultimately, the way in which I reduced this risk, to my mind at least, was to use a refrigerator. I use one of those commercial beverage coolers and control it with a heavy duty proportional thermostat. Now, this may be overkill for someone looking to hibernate a single tortoise (I'm able to hibernate ten animals in mine), so a smaller option with a smaller wattage thermostat may be well in order. If you hibernate your tortoise in this fashion, simply open the door of the fridge once per day for a few seconds to ensure adequate air circulation. I use rubbermaid tubs filled with peat moss to allow the torts to bury themselves should they so desire. Keep the temperature between forty and fifty degrees, with temps dropping to thirty eight not normally being a problem. If you're really worried about the performance of your fridge, forgo hibernation but acquire all of the materials needed. Put a box of peat in the fridge and meticulously record the readings over the course of the season. So long as no icicles form in the box itself and the temps remain stable over the course of the season, your tortoise should be fine provided it is at optimal health.

Ultimately, given that I haven't seen convincing evidence that tortoises kept from hibernation experience long term health problems, I'm inclined to say that anyone keeping a solitary tortoise as a pet doesn't necessarily need to hibernate their animal. But for me, I found this is best, especially concerning the fact that winter time here is rainy and dreary, and I hate seeing my kiddos stuck indoors when they would much rather be bandying about in their spacious outdoor enclosures. My margies also naturally start sleeping for longer during this time of year, regardless of my efforts, so for me, hibernation by fridge is the best option, keeping in mind that this isn't for everyone and that, to date, there doesn't appear to be any conclusive evidence demonstrating that forgoing hibernation is blatantly incorrect, as far as I know, anyway.

T.G.
 

Tidgy's Dad

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I live on the edge of the High Atlas Mountains and the torts near here tend to hibernate for longer than those in the valleys down South near the Anti Atlas.
Some of the latter hibernate for only 6 to 8 weeks while here it can be for up to 10 to 12 weeks, depending on the severity of the winter. Some of the northern coastal varieties don't seem to hibernate at all.
 

Kori5

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I think it's a personal choice. If you feel you can do it and know how to do it, why not. However I think it is just to risky and I heard horror stories from people who have done it for years and then their animal just died.
 

cmacusa3

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What have you decided about Hibernation for Oli? I know we would all love to see pics of Oli and his enclosure.
 

JoesMum

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If you chose to hibernate, you would definitely need the fridge method. You need consistent temperatures around 5C (always below 10C and above 0C) for it to be successful.

Using the fridge you keep your own doesn't seem to be recommended as you go in it too often and the temperature fluctuates.
 

Holly'sMom

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Everything I read has said sulcata do not go into hibernation BUT I found a lady in Pennsylvania who has an older sulcata it looks rather large from her pics (looks normal, no weird shell or deformities). Anyways she's telling me her's hibernates. She has an outdoor pen and she's had him for a long time from what she's telling me (im not sure if it would be ok to share her pics but anyone wants to PM me I can send them). Anyways is this just one of those oddities I mean I'm not an expert on tortoise but from the pics I'm 99% sure it's a sulcata like she says. Is it possible for them to go into hibernation in a Pennsylvania winter?
 

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