drew54

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2018
Messages
903
Location (City and/or State)
Indiana
I noticed yesterday morning that the floor off his enclosure, well at his level on substrate, was registering 104 while the ambient temp midway up throughout the enclosure was registering 80-85. He had been very lethargic and hadn't eaten in two days. :( I had adjusted the thermostat and the basking bulb as it was registering 113. His poor head and skin had darkened and dry. I soak him twice everyday and today I soaked him for an hour and I will soak him more later. His eyes are bright and not sunken in so hopefully I caught it in time. I adjusted the thermostat again and I'm about to check it again. After his soak I rubbed his head and he apparently liked it a lot. I'm hoping he perks up more and starts eating again.
 

ZEROPILOT

REDFOOT WRANGLER
Moderator
Tortoise Club
5 Year Member
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
28,938
Location (City and/or State)
South Eastern Florida (U.S.A.)/Rock Hill S.C.
Maybe check the actual temperature of his shell.
They like it warmer than some. But those lights can dry out a tortoise and in severe cases, cook one.
Is there a cool area in the enclosure?
 

drew54

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2018
Messages
903
Location (City and/or State)
Indiana
His cool side was registering 104 and his shell hotter. I have been trying to keep the ambient temp of the substrate level around 85-90, but not higher than 90. He seems to like it when it's around there. He was having gritty looking urates twice last week. I thought it was because of excess protein and not dehydration. He is in a 3' x 1.5' tub with the Che over the cool side. I'm hoping to have his new enclosure done in the next couple of weeks. That should help with the temp regulation. I noticed this morning he was trying to get behind his hide where it was cooler.
 

Yvonne G

Old Timer
TFO Admin
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
93,390
Location (City and/or State)
Clovis, CA
You don't really run into problems like this in a closed chamber. The whole enclosure is the same temperature - no hot side, no cool side, no cold at the floor but hot up above, no hot at the floor but cold up above. . . the whole "chamber" fills up with the same temperature
 

drew54

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2018
Messages
903
Location (City and/or State)
Indiana
This what he has been doing all weekend and today for soaks. His head looks really dry and scaly.IMG_0773.jpgIMG_0774.jpgIMG_0775.jpgIMG_0776.jpgIMG_0772.jpg
I have all the temps corrected now and I have soaked him for a total of two hours today. His eyes are bright and he responds well when I pick him up. Does his skin look bad?
 

drew54

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2018
Messages
903
Location (City and/or State)
Indiana
I'm getting a little worried. He hasn't eaten in a few days. I've soaked him for almost 2.5 hrs today in Pedialyte and carrot mixture under his uvb light. Still sleeping almost all day long. No symptoms of ri or anything. Shell id's hard and patron is pliable. Skin is looking more hydrated. Could this just be "baby" behavior?
 

drew54

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2018
Messages
903
Location (City and/or State)
Indiana
IMG_0783.jpgIMG_0784.jpgIMG_0785.jpgIMG_0786.jpgIMG_0787.jpg
Poorly rigged I know. Temp 81 throughout. 85-90 at tort level on warm and cool side. Hot side 97-102. Humidity 82%.
 

drew54

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2018
Messages
903
Location (City and/or State)
Indiana
I'm feeling really bad about his situation. It's my fault as I didn't properly check the floor temps which caused his dehydration. I had swapped out the swampy substrate for dry. I dampened the coir and put orchid bark on top to keep the level of mess down. I dampened the bark and set the thermostat and checked the temps regularly, but I messed up. I didn't use my temp gun to check floor temps that night and they got too high at night.

I've been doing baby food soaks and adding calcium and d3 in the soaks. I've been soaking him anywhere from one to two hours each day for the past two days. Regular two 30 min water soaks everyday before baby food soaks.

He is still weak and his eyes are closed more. He moves a little bit, but still won't eat. I put shell saver on him this morning after his food soak in hopes it will help.

I have been upping the humidity 80+ and temps are 80-90 warm and cool side basking 95-100.

I bought some endive and dandelion greens and in going to try to get him to eat those per recommendation of the forum.

When I pick him up and rub his head he opens his eyes and moves his head against my finger. He does this for about two min and then I place him by his food.

He smells it and either walks away and lays down to sleep or falls asleep by his food. I have fresh greens, wheat grass, and a variety of weeds and grasses for him, but he doesn't eat.

This is my fault and I feel horrible. I'm trying everything I can to keep him hydrated and get him to eat. I'm also trying really hard to monitor and control his temps. He seems to be themoregulating fine.

I'm really pulling for this little dude and this is a testament to everything that these care sheets say and knowledge of the members. I'll never forget to check the floor temps again.
 

vladimir

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
May 18, 2017
Messages
1,484
Location (City and/or State)
Pennsylvania
How's Bones doing today? Was everything going okay with him prior to the temperature mixup?
 

drew54

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2018
Messages
903
Location (City and/or State)
Indiana
How's Bones doing today? Was everything going okay with him prior to the temperature mixup?
Yes, he was doing well before. He is the same. I've been doing food soaks with calcium and d3 for the past two days. His eyes remain closed a lot longer, but opens them when I rub his head. His eyes are still clear and bright. His shell is hard and plastron still pliable. I have been upping the humidity 80+ keeping temps around 80-90 warm and cool. Basking is 95-100.

I applied shell saver to him to help keep it from drying out. I'm still trying to get him to eat, but no luck there. He moves a little from time to time. When he does move you can see that he is very weak.

I don't have the money to take him to the vet as I spent most of my check on getting my car fixed. I'm doing everything I know to do to keep him hydrated and temps appropriate. Also, greatly encouraging him to eat. I'm mixing food, not mixing food together, giving him his favorite things,, and he still doesn't eat.

I'm hoping he will come too soon. I don't know what else to do. I can't take him out because it's been way too cold. He does seem to perk up when I interact with him.
 

wellington

Well-Known Member
Moderator
10 Year Member!
Tortoise Club
Joined
Sep 6, 2011
Messages
49,660
Location (City and/or State)
Chicago, Illinois, USA
What was the floor temp? Be careful giving too much calcium, too much is as bad as too little. Put piedialyte in his soak water with the carrot.
 

drew54

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2018
Messages
903
Location (City and/or State)
Indiana
What was the floor temp? Be careful giving too much calcium, too much is as bad as too little. Put piedialyte in his soak water with the carrot.
It was 104f . I've only put a pinch of it in his soaking water once this week. I thought maybe if I put it in there maybe he will get some of it. I will do another Pedialyte soak tonight.

I've read a lot about not using Pedialyte because of the amount of sugar it has which is not good for a weak digestive system. If that's the case here. What are your thoughts on that?

Are there any other issues tat could cause him to not eat and become lethargic?
 

wellington

Well-Known Member
Moderator
10 Year Member!
Tortoise Club
Joined
Sep 6, 2011
Messages
49,660
Location (City and/or State)
Chicago, Illinois, USA
104 is not too overly high. Do you know how he was raised before you got him? Hot and humid or hot and dry?
As for the piedialyte I have never seen or read any problems with it. Many torts have recovered when it was used. Have no idea if it had anything to do with recovery or not as it's almost impossibly too know what worked and what didn't. I have been recommending it since 2012 when I first read about someone using it with good results.
 

drew54

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2018
Messages
903
Location (City and/or State)
Indiana
104 is not too overly high. Do you know how he was raised before you got him? Hot and humid or hot and dry?
As for the piedialyte I have never seen or read any problems with it. Many torts have recovered when it was used. Have no idea if it had anything to do with recovery or not as it's almost impossibly too know what worked and what didn't. I have been recommending it since 2012 when I first read about someone using it with good results.
I got him from Tyler at tortoise supply. I just got home and did a temp, humidity, and a physical exam. Temps and humidity are good. His plastron has sunken in around the middle and it's a little soft. I will do a Pedialyte and food soak again. I'm very worried now.
 

drew54

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2018
Messages
903
Location (City and/or State)
Indiana
Here is what their website says. His behavior resembles hatchling failure syndrome.

Our Current Care: During cooler weather or indoors, these tortoises are kept indoors on a cypress and/or coco coir substrate with a humid hidebox that they can get into at night. We raise them in cheap, simple plastic tubs that can be purchased at WalMart or Target, generally 3 to 4 square feet in size for babies. Temperatures in the room fluctuate between 75 at night up to 85 during the day, but we keep the hidebox heated to around 80-85 at night with a heat pad beind it, or a red bulb placed overhead.

Diet consists of spring mix greens with many other leafy greens offered in rotation to that (mulberry, endive, grape leaves, hibiscus leaves, diced cactus pad and we use globe mallow leaves pretty regularly). We like to also add moistened Mazuri LS tortoise diet as well as ZooMed's Gourmet Tortoise Food a few times a week, usually mixed and mashed into the leafy greens. The addition of the commercial diets take care of most or all of the supplementation needs, or you can sprinkle the food lightly with a calcium supplement 2 or 3 times a week and a multivitamin supplement 1-2 times a week. We also throw a pinch of our herbal hay on top of whatever they are eating almost daily, which adds variety and flavor and scent to everything.

The tortoises are removed from their enclosure and soaked in a separate 1/4" deep pan of warm water daily or almost daily for 30 minutes each time. We don't generally use water dishes in the enclosures because of the risk of drowning (yes, we have lost babies to drowning when they flipped over in 1/4" of water).

Being a desert species, they should have intense lighting, and they need lights on during the day and off at night to maintain a normal day/night cycle. We use full spectrum UVB lights, which we suggest for the growth of pretty, healthy tortoises, and use a ZooMed Powersun bulb in a small part of the enclosure to give them a "hot spot" around 95-100 degrees that they can get into if they want to warm up.

We don't use the "closed chamber" method (keeping airflow very restricted to increase humidity to the point that clouds form in the enclosure). It is very risky if/when temperatures get below about 80, and mold, shell rot, and respiratory problems become a lot more common in those conditions. We keep them open top in the warm area, and enclosed, warm and humid within the hide (like they would be in the wild). They are free to choose the conditions, temperatures, and humidity levels they want within that setup.
 

drew54

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2018
Messages
903
Location (City and/or State)
Indiana
I emailed Tyler from tortoise supply and he wasn't too happy. He said my problem is the enclosed chamber and that they are death traps which is why he doesn't use them. I know I caused his dehydration because I didn't check floor temp that one night.

What I'm really confused about his that I've followed everyone's advice and care sheets and he was doing well and then suddenly after the high temp he immediately declined.

He said he would make an exception and replace with a new tort if I pay shipping, but there would be no guarantee if I kept it in a closed chamber.

I'm heartbroken and I don't know what to do.
 

wellington

Well-Known Member
Moderator
10 Year Member!
Tortoise Club
Joined
Sep 6, 2011
Messages
49,660
Location (City and/or State)
Chicago, Illinois, USA
Tyler isn't a bad place. It could just very well be one that won't thrive. Nothing anyone did. Keep up the soaks and keep him warm. Hopefully he will pull thru. Fingers crossed. And I don't think it had anything too do with the little higher floor temp.
 

wellington

Well-Known Member
Moderator
10 Year Member!
Tortoise Club
Joined
Sep 6, 2011
Messages
49,660
Location (City and/or State)
Chicago, Illinois, USA
I'm very surprised he would say that. He's a member of this forum and should know the great results the closed chamber has done not only for the health of tortoises but for growing them smooth like they should be.
I guess my opinion on your other thread about where you purchased has changed.
You need to do what you need to do. If it were me I wouldn't be listening to him!
 

New Posts

Top