Tom's response to "Garden State Tortoise" Video

[mark1]

Surgery of sand-impacted Aldabra, hopefully with X-rays).

i did find this, the obstruction was gravel, my guess would be the example you found would also be gravel..... in this case it is a pound of gravel and a 200lb tortoise, which would have me think the gravel was ingested all at once and purposefully......also i'm guessing the pound of gravel was not the primary cause..... i had 130-140lb dog eat at least a pound of dirt..... you know how gas grills have that pan for catching grease? if its not in the grease drips on the ground, i caught my dog eating the dirt under the grill the next day, a pound of dirt is on the conservative side.......

SURGICAL AND MEDICAL MANAGEMENT OF A GASTROINTESTINAL OBSTRUCTION IN AN ALDABRA TORTOISE, Geochel ne gigantea Mark Kombert, V '* Randall .. Junge, S, DACZM cause.

What verifiable proof is there? You want me to go find an X-ray of a sand impacted tortoise?

i don't think you could find one, possibly one of your veterinarian friends could get you one? i 'd say don't feed your tortoises off the ground, feed them off some sort of hard surface..... they do eat substrate, gravel appears to be a riskier culprit, i do believe there is more to it than the amount of substrate eaten stuck to food....

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

i did find this, the obstruction was gravel, my guess would be the example you found would also be gravel..... in this case it is a pound of gravel and a 200lb tortoise, which would have me think the gravel was ingested all at once and purposefully......also i'm guessing the pound of gravel was not the primary cause..... i had 130-140lb dog eat at least a pound of dirt..... you know how gas grills have that pan for catching grease? if its not in the grease drips on the ground, i caught my dog eating the dirt under the grill the next day, a pound of dirt is on the conservative side.......

SURGICAL AND MEDICAL MANAGEMENT OF A GASTROINTESTINAL OBSTRUCTION IN AN ALDABRA TORTOISE, Geochel ne gigantea Mark Kombert, V '* Randall .. Junge, S, DACZM cause.

i don't think you could find one, possibly one of your veterinarian friends could get you one? i 'd say don't feed your tortoises off the ground, feed them off some sort of hard surface..... they do eat substrate, gravel appears to be a riskier culprit, i do believe there is more to it than the amount of substrate eaten stuck to food....

Authors names don't match, but most likely cases study, I've found, referenced this paper by Kombert. And "gravel" became "sand" because of translation inaccuracy.

And, yes, there are X-rays of tortoises impacted with gravel...

 

[Fluffy]

i did find this, the obstruction was gravel, my guess would be the example you found would also be gravel..... in this case it is a pound of gravel and a 200lb tortoise, which would have me think the gravel was ingested all at once and purposefully......also i'm guessing the pound of gravel was not the primary cause..... i had 130-140lb dog eat at least a pound of dirt..... you know how gas grills have that pan for catching grease? if its not in the grease drips on the ground, i caught my dog eating the dirt under the grill the next day, a pound of dirt is on the conservative side.......

SURGICAL AND MEDICAL MANAGEMENT OF A GASTROINTESTINAL OBSTRUCTION IN AN ALDABRA TORTOISE, Geochel ne gigantea Mark Kombert, V '* Randall .. Junge, S, DACZM cause.

i don't think you could find one, possibly one of your veterinarian friends could get you one? i 'd say don't feed your tortoises off the ground, feed them off some sort of hard surface..... they do eat substrate, gravel appears to be a riskier culprit, i do believe there is more to it than the amount of substrate eaten stuck to food....

In the article @Alex and the Redfoot posted it mentions gravel impaction and the animal being severly calcium deficient. I bet we would be hard pressed to find a healthy, well cared for animal with an impaction.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

It doesnt matter anymore. Theres been enough back & forth discussion to determine this is all a matter of opinion.

It's a bit more than opinion. You can't just use any sand in any proportion with any species on diet of grocery store produce amended with classic Mazuri. Those who use sand and those who don't admit that it can cause impactions. Then you can either ditch sand at all and be less restricted with diet, enclosure size and so or use sand and ensure that all husbandry aspects are top-notch with less margin for an error.

 

[Fluffy]

It's a bit more than opinion. You can't just use any sand in any proportion with any species on diet of grocery store produce amended with classic Mazuri. Those who use sand and those who don't admit that it can cause impactions. Then you can either ditch sand at all and be less restricted with diet, enclosure size and so or use sand and ensure that all husbandry aspects are top-notch with less margin for an error.

Perfect summary!

 

[S2G]

Then you can either ditch sand at all and be less restricted with diet, enclosure size and so or use sand and ensure that all husbandry aspects are top-notch with less margin for an error.

You can either provide what that animal needs or you need to get something else. Its not the substrates fault you stuck an animal in too small of a box & fed it the wrong diet. I mean is putting a piece of slate down to feed off of really that hard?

Its so wild to me. Most would commend keeping animals in a naturalistic way, but here we are.

Toms way works & so does Chris's.