Breeding Sulcatas

[Marla]

This is true to some degree but you must agree with me when I say that the keeper who has branched out to other species is very few compared to the parent wanting to satisfy their child's interest in the small creatures..Yes many many parents want these tortoises and at a low price and only our sweet sulcata can fill this market leaving the wild caught market of our other tortoises a few more days in the wild as their demand is weakened by our sulcata market..I can only say I wish the other variety of tortoises produced as well as our sulcatas did....Its a losing battle for our wild caught and it maybe the breeder that keeps these endangered tortoises alive for the future generations..Humans have done alot worse then just collect these animals..They have destroyed environments to the point that if not for the collector we may have none...Its a catch two kinda thing don't ya think....What's the long term solution here and not the short term quick fix?

I'm g oing to have to disagree a bit about sulcatas helping the plight of other endangered tortoises Marla.
Having captive born sulcatas available is definately helping the wild populations of sulcatas, but it isn't helping any of the other tortoises.
Sulcatas appeal to the first time tortoise keeper, but not a keeper that has branched out into other species. Until each particular species is bred in enough quantity to satisfy demand, than wild caught animals will still be bought. That's just the nature of the beast that is tortoise keeping.

Danny

 

[kevantheman35]

What about looking at it this way. If the sulcata market was not even bigger then the creatures themselves like it is today, then the market and, therefore breeders might focus on some of the other species who's populations are much lower and their population would skyrocket. I dont know, its late. Just food for thought lol

 

[egyptiandan]

When your talking rare and endangered tortoises your talking much more money than what you could get for a sulcata. So there is that incentive to import them. Your parent looking to buy a cute tortoise for their child would most likely not even be exposed to that end of the industry, because 99.9% of petshops don't have rare or expensive tortoises.
Even with all the CB sulcatas around it hasn't stopped the importation of Russian tortoises.
Sulcatas are so prolific because they have such large clutches. The only other tortoise that produces large clutches is the Asian giant tortoise. Even Aldabra and Galapagos tortoises have smaller clutches.
It takes more females and a longer time period with every other species to equal what one female sulcata can do.
That would depend on what we are trying to fix.

Danny

 

[Marla]

Yes yes yes,,Sulcata's have not stopped the Russian's from coming in..and some Golden Greeks as well..But the sulcata's have been there to fill that space for even the wealthiest of buyers..and Russians or Greek still cost more and at the rate of collecting of the Russians we need only the tortoise educated to buy those...The very rare endangered tortoises are high dollar enough to keep most people from buying them which in turn encourages breeders to breed and share babies with the collectors at even higher prices...In turn with habitats being destroyed the breeder becomes very important....Sulcatas are a poor mans tortoise and even the poor need to enjoy the wonderful joy a tortoise brings..(poor is not really poor if you live in America)
Back to the wealthy and sulcata breeding..This tortoise is sought out by many because people like big ... Most people who buy in pet stores or other places and don't know how big they get..really don't care and sad to say most of these babies do die..But for every child that gets one of these pets the tortoise world is now opened up in their ever growing minds...(education is good) With the prices dropping on the sulcata's.. Breeders are backing off and selling to other countries or just stop breeding them altogether..Some are working on mutatations..I must say I would love to here more about these over runned rescue places and how many of these creatures come in, in say a year and what the placing in homes turn over rate is..

 

[Yvonne G]

To add to what's already been said about breeding the higher-end species: Most other tortoises, especially the more expensive and rarer tortoises don't breed readily in captivity. I've been trying to have success at allowing the Manouria to breed for over 10 years and every time there's just something that wasn't quite right. This year I was lucky enough to have one baby hatch out of over 100 eggs. I'm sure this is the way it is with many of the rarer species. Its very difficult to have successful breedings in captivity. My fingers are crossed for next year to be MY year!

Yvonne

 

[Meg90]

oh my goodness! One out of 100!

Congrats. are their pics up of the baby?

(sorry to be off topic, I couldn't resist)

 

[Maggie Cummings]

oh my goodness! One out of 100!

Congrats. are their pics up of the baby?

(sorry to be off topic, I couldn't resist)

I just posted a picture of her entitled here's Emmie. Just click on the attachment while I follow directions to see how to post the actual picture instead of the link...

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Here's Emmie...one out of 100

 

[Marla]

oh my goodness! One out of 100!

Congrats. are their pics up of the baby?

(sorry to be off topic, I couldn't resist)

I just posted a picture of her entitled here's Emmie. Just click on the attachment while I follow directions to see how to post the actual picture instead of the link...

---

Here's Emmie...one out of 100

Congrats..What a beautiful baby

---

 

[Maggie Cummings]

Sorry...I didn't mean for that picture to post twice...Can ya tell I'm new at posting pictures??? Josh go ahead and delete one if you want to...

 

[twtraudio]

I personally dont think breeding them is worng as long as the right care and general info is given at time of purchase. Unfortunatley the people buying from breeders buy in lots and sell them in their pet stores and could care less what the customer needs to know about them ! than they end up with me struggling for their life and i have to watch it and pray for their recovery !

I dont mind one bit getting them just hate to see the terrible shape they are usaully in when i go pick them up and the owners not knowing what they had gotten themselves into. I once was a victim of this myself when i got first sulcata and got all the wrong info but i guess its partly the consumers fault too for not doing the research themselves too. Just wish people would get all the info first before getting any kind of tortoise.

 

[SFCMARK]

The bottom line is the babies are what most people want. They are cute and small. I blame the individuals buying them that do not do research as to what they are actually buying! I see it all the time, and actually just had a lady call me 2 days ago. She told me her local pet store woudl not sell her a baby tortoise, and told her to contact a rescue because there are soo many tortoises out there that need homes. That is why she called me. When I asked her what kind of tortoise she was looking for, she said a Sulcata. I asked her "do you know how large they get?" She had no idea!!!! When I told her, she about had a heart attack! Again, someone wanting to buy a cute baby tortoise, but has no idea what they are getting into.

 

[Laura]

Why breed animals with the intention of finding them good home when we KNOW that the mass majority DIE young?!

 

[nrfitchett4]

I'm confused here. Where can you find a CB hatchling for $50? Not at the petstore, they are charging $150 here in S.A.
I do wonder what percentage of sulcata's die young versus other pets. If there is demand, there will be supply. If not you, then someone else. The best you can do is educate.
FYI: I google reptile rescues in San Antonio and pretty much come up blank. Not sure if there are any rescues available here. Seems to be a couple thousand cats and dogs though.

 

[-EJ]

hit the reptile shows and local turtle and tortoise clubs. You can either get them for nothing or less than $50.

If you are in San Antonio and you have property you are a prime candidate for all the free sulcatas you can handle... not kidding.

Let me know your setup and contact info...

I'm confused here. Where can you find a CB hatchling for $50? Not at the petstore, they are charging $150 here in S.A.
I do wonder what percentage of sulcata's die young versus other pets. If there is demand, there will be supply. If not you, then someone else. The best you can do is educate.
FYI: I google reptile rescues in San Antonio and pretty much come up blank. Not sure if there are any rescues available here. Seems to be a couple thousand cats and dogs though.

 

[dmmj]

IMO this would seem to be a point in WC vs CB I doubt very few if any sulc. are being imported anymore? as for rescuing I do rescue smaller torts and turtles i nmy neighboorhood. A friend of mine who lives in the same city rescued his sulc. (xena) who we just figured out this year is a male, from the local railyard I think someone let him go in hopes he would be found I gues? sounds pretty bad to me. As to bredding I would obviously see a reduction in sulc breeding but how do you enforce something liek this? sterilize them? like calif just passed, IMHO rules liek that just punish the law abiding and the law breakers wont follow the rules anyways. (yes my male dog is now nuetered) Remember when you outlaw guns only outlaws will have guns. well that is my 2 cents worth.

 

[Laura]

Calif has not passed a mandatory neuter law for dogs... yet.. its being fought.. its written poorly. However.. there are Citys and Counties that have...
I wish it was easy to neuter a Tort! That was one of the first questions i asked on this forum.. My thought was that it would make housing males together much easier... not to mention prevent breeding of some..
A law like that is hard to enforce and only hurts the already law abiding people anyway.. Its like charging $150 for a license versus $20 for a neutered dog.. the people with the dogs who are breeding and causing the problems in shelters.. dont license! Go to just about any shelter and what is the majority breed....Pits and Pit mixes..
CLimbs off soapbox...

 

[-EJ]

It is very easy to neuter a tortoise. It can cost as little as $150... the younger the easier.

Calif has not passed a mandatory neuter law for dogs... yet.. its being fought.. its written poorly. However.. there are Citys and Counties that have...
I wish it was easy to neuter a Tort! That was one of the first questions i asked on this forum.. My thought was that it would make housing males together much easier... not to mention prevent breeding of some..
A law like that is hard to enforce and only hurts the already law abiding people anyway.. Its like charging $150 for a license versus $20 for a neutered dog.. the people with the dogs who are breeding and causing the problems in shelters.. dont license! Go to just about any shelter and what is the majority breed....Pits and Pit mixes..
CLimbs off soapbox...

 

[TylerStewart]

I can think of much more productive things to do with $150 if the ultimate goal is saving the planet

I'm pleased to say that the cheapest sulcatas at the Pomona reptile show earlier this month were sold by Reptile Depot for $59 each. I did my part by selling mine for $70.

 

[-EJ]

You have to stop and think... that's a retailer... he probably bought them from someone else... that's scary.

I can think of much more productive things to do with $150 if the ultimate goal is saving the planet

I'm pleased to say that the cheapest sulcatas at the Pomona reptile show earlier this month were sold by Reptile Depot for $59 each. I did my part by selling mine for $70.

 

[Yvonne G]

Its always a crap-shoot to put a tortoise under anesthesia. Some tortoises survive the surgery just fine, but can't recover from the anesthesia.

Yvonne