Coconut Oil

Alaskamike

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Hi All,
So before is with lettuce and after he has nothing? Thanks
Kelly.
You will not see a difference in the shell from one application. The effect is seen in growth. Growth takes time.

Your tortoise shell looks as though the scutes are depressed lower than the growth lines. I would be interested in your set up - lights - food etc.
 

glitch4200

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That sounds more like it. You are in the early stages of developing a universal adapter to filter the light. Am I understanding that correctly?

Yes. That would be correct. IF we successfully make it cheap enough for all keepers to use .. It would be golden. I am in communications with Dr. Frances Baines who runs the www.uvguide.uk website about this too. She is very excited. As am i. To get her approval or support of such a thing would be a big deal to me. Things are moving along quite nicely. But if we achieve this . The needs for coconut oil in the way i have been using it will not l
 

Anyfoot

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Yes. That would be correct. IF we successfully make it cheap enough for all keepers to use .. It would be golden. I am in communications with Dr. Frances Baines who runs the www.uvguide.uk website about this too. She is very excited. As am i. To get her approval or support of such a thing would be a big deal to me. Things are moving along quite nicely. But if we achieve this . The needs for coconut oil in the way i have been using it will not l
Can't wait to see your invention. Exciting stuff. How long will it be before you know if your pending patent will be granted or not. Have you filed for worldwide or just North America patent. (I use the word JUST lightly)lol
 

glitch4200

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Can't wait to see your invention. Exciting stuff. How long will it be before you know if your pending patent will be granted or not. Have you filed for worldwide or just North America patent. (I use the word JUST lightly)lol

This is the awesome part.. My partner lives in Canada. I live in the United States. As I have been told. Canadian patent is good internationally. And United States Patent is good only for the United states. I only get 12 months from the initial provisional patent pending filing until you must submit your finalized version so you can recieve a patent pending #.

We are waiting to turn in the provisional patent here in the US. And then he will file in Canada. But please I hope no one thinks I am joking. Because it's going to happen. This will help so many reptiles.
 

Anyfoot

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This is the awesome part.. My partner lives in Canada. I live in the United States. As I have been told. Canadian patent is good internationally. And United States Patent is good only for the United states. I only get 12 months from the initial provisional patent pending filing until you must submit your finalized version so you can recieve a patent pending #.

We are waiting to turn in the provisional patent here in the US. And then he will file in Canada. But please I hope no one thinks I am joking. Because it's going to happen. This will help so many reptiles.
I'm not laughing and listening to you with seriousness. I was lead to believe that north america and Canada came under the same patent laws. To patent for Europe will cost a lot more than for America. Attack your home market 1st. At the end of the day you will get some countries that copy your idea, for you to follow a law suit would cost a fortune. They know that. For you its about making a full proof product at a fair price. You can't sell something for $30 then when you get challenged, all of a sudden sell at $20. This will be frowned on. Dont be greedy from day 1 and if the product proves its worth you will succeed. You need a brand name that is catchy and all will remember. When will the product be ready to trial.
 

Alaskamike

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I hope this works out well for you. So many inventions start out just this way. An individual gets frustrated , sees a need for something new - or a change and goes about figuring out something better.
Good luck :)
 

glitch4200

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*UPDATE* So we are getting close to about 11 months since I started applying the coconut oil to my male Russian tortoise Nibbles. And here are pictures as of this week of both my male and female russian. I also got a new camera so the pictures are going to be better quality. My female russian Nappebbles is going on 8 months of consistent applications of EVCO. Both get the oil applied up to 4x a week. I have to say the average amount of applications over the year have been 3 applications a week. It seems to be the best amount in my opinion for multiple reasons, ill avoid getting into much detail. My fiance just had a baby boy last Wednesday, and I am on baby watch currently. This camera though makes it much clearer to see my tortoises shell and the effects this oil has had on it. (only have seen postive effects).

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glitch4200

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Napebbles Update*

Sorry it is not letting me load full image thumbnails.
She is going on 8 months of applications. You can see much she has grow in the last 8 months with me. And despite my subpar habitat set up and low humidity enviornment in a open table top, I am still achieving smooth growth.
 

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Anyfoot

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Napebbles Update*

Sorry it is not letting me load full image thumbnails.
She is going on 8 months of applications. You can see much she has grow in the last 8 months with me. And despite my subpar habitat set up and low humidity enviornment in a open table top, I am still achieving smooth growth.
Your tort looks nice, and congratulations on your baby boy.
 

glitch4200

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So I have been meticulously trying to learn some really in depth stuff on the biology and workings of our shelled friends. It has actually been quite fun learning this stuff and how they work. Each time i do this i come closer to figuring out if coconut oil is really helping and doing what i have claimed it can do.

According to the Journal of Morphology 265-52-69(2005)
Reserach Article: "Proliferation in the Epidermis of Chelonian and Growth of Horny Scutes" By: Lorenzo Alibardi

I learned a bunch of stuff. I took some snap shots of some important pages i liked.
Here is a detailed description of a scute broken down, by far the most detailed i have found yet.

Close up of scute illistration.jpg
jofm1.jpg
This picture shows what the illustration is saying.
jofm2.jpg

Just a few more... this helped me ask questions of what i am doing to this cycle of renewal in the keratin itself at this level. How does introducing an acidic enviornment change this cycle of beta keratin proliferation?
jom3.jpg

My biggest question after reading this.. How does non hibernation affect a tortoise who is exposed to artificial lighting constantly and kept awake constantly?... It seems that not allowing the cells to rest come with its own risk in itself. You will get constant proliferation with no stopping/resting periods, this will obviously require much more energy and nutrients to support the cellular function of this system, but if this process is never stopped in a non hibernated tortoise and you combine this with indoor housing with artificial lighting , i can see a big problem brewing with the equalibrium of the proteins.

jofm4.jpg

Another big question is that since i keep my tortoise awake and it does not experience any resting periods, how does this effect the response to unfiltered lamps by itself? If i apply the coconut oil up too 4x a week.. Essentially i am interfering with some part of this cycle. The fact that coconut oil has a low pH, and that it biochemically reacts with the proteins, beta keratin is grow in a basic environment and the introduction of an acidic environement should have some influence on its proliferation.. The way i see it .. The fact i dont hibernate my tortoise and allow its shell to rest, the addition of coconut oil possibly inhibiting the process of beta keratin proliferation could yield benefit in itself to slow the over process of proliferating beta keratin just by inhibiting it by its pH factor. This is still not taking in account other aweosome benefits i have yet to touch on...

Any thoughts anyone?

Now back to psych class..
 

Alaskamike

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Nice info Glitch
Now we are really getting into the weeds of bio- chemistry. In natural , even adaptation to periods of depervation is adapted to, and could contribute to health. In human health there is good indication that occasional fasting with good water intake clears out toxins that can build up in the system. Our ancient ancestors undoubtably had lean food periods.
We hobbiests insure well rounded , appropriate food supplies all the time. Not that starving our charges is a good thing , but this does not duplicate nature.

Many species spend a great deal of time in deep shade or underground. But we provide 8-12 hours of lamp UV daily. Or hours a day of outside sunlight.

In nature some years entire baby populations are wiped out , in good years as little as 5% or less will make it to adolescence. When good breeders have clutches , frequently 100% survive and thrive. But this also means the principle nature uses to eliminate weak genetics from being passed on ( only the strong survive) is thwarted.

It's always a balancing act. I know the deeper science of tortoise biology might not interest most hobbiests. But it is fascinating to me.

Glad you are sharing.
 

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