Coconut Oil

[glitch4200]

Im thinking the fact you spray and bathe your torts most days is overiding any true outcome of your coconut experiment. You are in effect keeping them humid as well as using coconut oil, so we will never know if they are growing smooth because of the oil or the constant spray/bathing. The only way to prove this is to only put oil on one tort. Can you do this? The fact is that some of the more experienced tort keepers on here are growing smooth torts without coconutting them.
BTW. I'm glad you did this experiment because it highlighted the impact of hot spots to me. Most probably already new. Anyway my way to combat hot spots will be to create a smoother heat source. One way is to use a closed chamber with more of an ambient temp rather than a harsh hot area, and don't have the heat source too close to the torts. This said I have redfoots and i dont intend to have a specific basking area, just a heat gradient.

No, I will not su

OK, I went back and read a few pages. Glitch, I know you are very interested in the lighting aspect but it seems like you are not paying much attention to other aspects. You say you agree that the Hewwood method is effective but you don't do it. And your lights seem extremely close to your tortoises, at least that's what it looks like in the pictures. You said you don't plan on getting your tortoises outside for natural sunlight. Your enclosure seem a little small. It seems you are looking for a lighting system that along with the use of coconut oil, will make up for Bad husbandry in other areas. You say you want a lighting system that is foolproof. You are almost hostile towards suggestions to use different fixtures or different types and spacing of bulbs to spread out the UV and the heat over a wider area. You don't like the idea of a temperature gradient for adult tortoises. I stand by my previous statement, I feel you are creating the problems that you were trying to solve. You are rejecting what is basically considered proper husbandry and trying to find a quick fix all. Have you even considered the needs of different species of tortoises?
When this thread started I thought you might be onto something. Maybe you were but now I'm not sure what direction you're going.

I have been paying attention to all the aspects. My lamps are about 12 to 13 inches from the top of the tortoises shell and skin. Which is the recommended heights for the lamps i am using. it may look like they are close but they are all about 13 inches away from the top of the shell. My tortoises get outside about 2x to 3x times a week for about 20 to 30 minutes or so. My habitats are as big as i can allow inside my home. My habitats are 4.3 x 2.8. I also allow them running around time outside the habitat, as they have a pretty empty room that is safe for them to run around in. i try to take them out every single day for atleast 2 to 3 hours each of their habitats.

Until i am able to procure funds for new habitats this is what i am going to be working with.. I am able to properly hit the temp gradients needed in the habitats i am working with. My ambient temps are 85f. My basking is 96f. My cool zones which are my 5x humid hides go down to about 75f - 77f during the day time. At night my temps drop between 67 F. to 70F.

I am not against temp gradients... I just feel 90% of people think one heat bulb and UVb lamp is effective at creating a gradient temp properly. I see it all the time on facebook groups in their habitat pics. The most widely used set up is the 2x bulb set up. 1x Mercury vapor bulb on one side of the habitat. And 1x uvb bulb close by to the heat lamp. Then they think the rest of the habitat must be the "cool" zone. So its left pretty dark and cool.

That is arrogant and wrong. So pretty much your limiting the tortoise to the basking lamp and uvb lamp for heating and seeing light and keeping the rest of the habitat cool and dark. This right here is the common set up around the world when housing tortoises indoors. I have probably told over 300 people to add a second heating element and spread out the Uvb light so the tortoise can roam the table and be warm and see all over.Instead of being confined to a corner of the habitat. My tortoises like to be warm. And through observation when i keep my ambient temps at 85 f. He will fall asleep anywhere. Whereas, before when only giving him a single basking lamp (very early on in his care before i knew better). He was confined to the basking lamp section almost all day.

I feel the whole gradient guideline is being done incorrectly all over. People are offering incorrect temp gradients. I see it all the time on facebook groups. And i have a picture to show you all that shows exactly what i am talking about.

Also about my lamps. The lamp holders i have can be upgraded to the wider dome lamp holders. So i can get a tiny bit more spread in the bulbs themselves. But otherwise, i dont see where my issue is in my lighting scheme. I hit the gradients i need even in my smaller habitat. And being an open table top i need more powerful lamps to heat my area up, as its constantly being equalized by the surrounding air.

 

[glitch4200]

I don't think coconut oil is a replacement for humidity. I think the oil is working on the shell and possibly the skin. But that's only skin deep so to speak. If the tortoise does not have enough water and humidity for its insides then who cares what the shelf looks like.

Yes, technically it is only skin deep. But that skin is responsible for synthesizing pre d3, thermal regulation, neurological functioning, cellular functioning etc.. If you dehydrate the skin , it will not function like it needs too. Breaking the bonds in the skin which is responsible for d3, will decrease the bodies ability to actaully synthesis micronutrient. If you decrease hydration of shell and skin. The internal hydration must supplement the deficiency , taking away from vital internal needs of that hydration.. Now if you start messing with a tortoises ability to bind calcium... Well weak bone will be pronounced, weak bone leads to the ability of dehydrated keratin to readily deform underlying bone. As strong bone will help resist the mechanical stresses of dehydrated keratin. Weak bone will allow it to be readily deformed, and taking away a tortosies ability to synthesis the micronutrients, which will eventually lead to spongy non dense bone , which can and will contribute to pyramiding. (Theory)

 

[glitch4200]

There is no one size-fits-all perfect answer for this. Every enclosure, home and situation is different. Every tortoise enclosure is a custom job. There are now a bevy of good products to use to accomplish the goals of correct parameters for any given species and size tortoise. Everyone must take what is available and adapt it, modify it and make it work for THEIR individual situation.

"Fool proof"? Sorry. Doesn't exist. Fools will always find a way to mess things up.

I have had good results using:
1. 65 watt regular flood bulbs for a basking area. Height of the bulb should be determined in each enclosure by the thermometer probe under the bulb or the infrared thermometer readings.
2. Regular 5000-6500 K florescent light tubes for illumination.
3. Arcadia 12% HO tubes for UV. Mounted approximately 20" high and on a timer for 4-5 hours a day, mid day. Again, mounting height should be determined by a UV meter in each individual enclosure.
4. CHEs set on thermostats to maintain ambient.

All of the above are used in closed chambers.

Here is this years growth experiment. It might be of interest to you:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/2015-growth-experiment.119874/


Question: You believe the humid hydrated methods to be good and even go so far as to promote them, so why are your young tortoises in an open topped table with humidity as low as 20%?

You are correct. Each habitat is custom to the variables present in the environment. But then why do i see majority of tortoise keepers use the same lighting scheme. This lighting scheme is 1x mercury vapor bulb on one side of the habitat and 1x Uvb strip lamp on one side of the habitat. Then they claim the rest of the habitat is the "cool" zone. How is that efficient? You confine the tortoise to the heat lamp and leave the rest of the habitat cooler and "not lit" with seeing light. I would have to say probably close to 85% of the habitats i see indoors have that said lighting scheme. The argument is that they need the "cool" zone. But to the tortoise he wants to be warm, he doesn't need a cool zone of half the habitat...

When the sun rises and the entire area gets nice and warm. Their is no "cool zone". The only cool zones are hides, under brush, and moist cool microclimates in the soil during burrowing. This is what i mimic in my habitat. I keep the entire habitat warm, just like the wild. And i offer cool moist hides and moist microclimate for burrowing to escape that heat.. The tortoise does not need half the habitat cool. And that is the most widely used lighting scheme in keepers from much much much observation on facebook tortoise groups all over.

My humidity drops insanely fast with the use of 2x high powered lamps to heat my open table top. As i will be doing an experiment to show the devistating effects of these lamps. I am going to perform a little experiment. I have a vivarium, that i am not using. I will be taking a basking lamp, moist substrate, a bowl of water, and many humidity gauges and temp gauges to show you how much water is being taken by these lamps in what time frame. I will wake up spray the habitats down using a full quart of water.. By 4 hours, the water has completely dissipated, and my once 65% humidity is now close to 25% to 30%. This is why i like to soak at least every other day and make sure they always have moist microclimate.
In the experiment, I will show the effects of different lamps over different amounts of time and how much water the consume over different amoutns of time. The amount of water absorbed by these lamps is unbelievable. Once i do this experiment it will be clear, their is a huge problem with these lamps and how they affect tortoises housed indoors.

 

[glitch4200]

@Anyfoot IMO bathing and spraying your torts is not a substitute for high humidity under lamps. It does not keep them humid, or the shell properly hydrated, as the moisture is wicked away rapidly if room humidity is 20-40%. This is easy to demonstrate. Spray down your table and torts and then an hour later put a humidity gauge in there at ground level. You'll see what I mean.

There is a difference in raising them with constant humid air at say *80%

To having an open table top indoors and making sure they have plenty of water and spraying them or their enclosure down several times a day.

I know some with open table tops do this and seem to think it is a substitute - does the same thing but I don't believe so.

Exactly, just because i soak and provide moist microclimates, does not create equalized relative humidity in the shell and skin of the proteins in our tortoises. You need sustained humidity to keep the keratin hydrated. My humidity is constantly being attacked from equalizing with surround relative humidity in my room. It is almost impossible to keep humidity from falling once you spray and soak the substrate down. The dissipation of the water is almost immediately noticeable. I try and spray at least 2x a day. But sometimes i am only able to get 1x in. And on occasion I am not able to spray it at all. And on the days I don't spray. I will easily find my humidity in the 30% range or lower. But make no mistake about it , my habitat is not a high humidity enviornment.

 

[glitch4200]

When this thread started I thought you might be onto something. Maybe you were but now I'm not sure what direction you're going.

I am headed in a very similar direction. Even spacing my lamps out more. Changing the lamp holders to something more distributed, (wide dome holder), you still do not take away the facts of "unfiltered" infrared. No matter what you do except maybe use enclosed chambers, will you decrease the effects of unfiltered infrared. As enclosed chambers will allow you to not use as many high powered lamps that you need in an open table top, and you can stabilize the temps are humidity well in enclosed chambers. But the realistic facts of this are ... majority of people use open table tops, with powerful lamps to supplement heat and lighting. Majority of people are using low humid enviornments and set ups despite such positive outcome in enclosed chambers with high heat high humidity. My goal here has not changed. To prove that coconut oil has a place in tortoise keeping that is cheap, effective and beneficial to tortoise housed indoors under artificial lighting.

The only real solution is filtering infrared with water so that the "unfiltered" infrared becomes "water filtered" infrared just like our sun. This will immediately halt the need for coconut oil outside maybe the antifungal and antibacterial properties of the oil and combating fungal and bacteral issues in the shell and skin of these torts.

The way i see it, an added measure to protecting against these lamps outside water filtration would be coconut oil, in combination of lots of soaking, lots of humidity and heat, lots of access to clean drinking water, low exposure to basking lamps (gradients only feasible in big sized enclosed chambers), and of course access to moist microclimate for burrowing. I do not see any other way other then not housing your tortoise indoors to escape the detrimental effects of these lamps. So until water filtered lamps are are around , coconut oil in my opinion still has a vital role in my husbandry practices. As the long exposure to lamps they are subjected to continues, so will my coconutting. As i feel they are being protected by the coconut oil no matter what you do, besides maybe completely revamping my habitat to an enclosed chamber and getting rid of the powerful lamps. But again it still doesnt take away the fact that all these lamps , cermaic emitters included severely dehydrate our tortoises .

 

[Anyfoot]

In my juvenile red enclosure. My humidity never drops below 90%. I don't spray some days in fear of it getting too moist. I use a 150watt CHE and its 16" away from the substrate. Temp is a gradual 90f to 80f across the enclosure. ( I have no basking spot for this species). If you use a hotter bulb further away you get a bigger more even spread of the heat, the extreme is the sun. I don't spray my actual tortoises on purpose. When they come out of there hides in a morning they have a dull Matt colour carapace due to dew simulation. I would imagine( correct me if I'm wrong) that for example adult sulcata hide away through the night naturally getting humid, then as the day passes they dry out, and so on and so on. IMO its natural for torts to be at there driest towards the end of the day. However species that live in high humidity like redfoots don't dry off as quick.
Juveniles are different, they hide away for fear of predators in mini humid climates IMO.
Also if a sully is sat on an incline of a hill in the wild for 4,5,6 hrs, and the sun is only beating down on 1 half of its carapace, is this sully forcing an uneven growth on itself for this period? I don't know. Just another mad thought I've had.

 

[glitch4200]

Exhibit A.


This person is a prime example of how to not keep your tortoise. She posted on the tortoises keepers group on facebook this picture...

View attachment 140725

This is something extremely wrong here. I kindly pointed out that heat lamp is way to close to the tortoises shell. I was immediately told if he was hot he would move. Then I said that your thermally burning him having that lamp that close to the shell. I was immediately blocked and the picture was deleted. (but not before my screen shots)

You can see what the lamp does to the tortoise shell extremely well here. Where you see the lamp positioned. You will notice how the scute positioned directly underneath the lamp has proliferated severely. It is severely deformed becuase of exposure to the lamp above. This tortoise has been subjected to this lighting scheme for a very long time according to her. As she said, "it's how I have always had it".

You can see the direct damage it has caused to the tortoise. The shell proliferated like that to protect the underlying alpha Kerstin being subjected to intense localized heating. It is so bad that the entire scute is curling away from the middle. This is the mechanical stress that is readily deforming bone, and a direct correlation to Basking lamps and deformed beta Kerstin.

 

[glitch4200]

 

[Anyfoot]

View attachment 140728

It's sad to see that and that someone won't take on advice. People like this can't be helped. . So you are saying that the 2 scutes that have grown deformed are due to a heat spot in this area.

 

[glitch4200]

In my juvenile red enclosure. My humidity never drops below 90%. I don't spray some days in fear of it getting too moist. I use a 150watt CHE and its 16" away from the substrate. Temp is a gradual 90f to 80f across the enclosure. ( I have no basking spot for this species). If you use a hotter bulb further away you get a bigger more even spread of the heat, the extreme is the sun. I don't spray my actual tortoises on purpose. When they come out of there hides in a morning they have a dull Matt colour carapace due to dew simulation. I would imagine( correct me if I'm wrong) that for example adult sulcata hide away through the night naturally getting humid, then as the day passes they dry out, and so on and so on. IMO its natural for torts to be at there driest towards the end of the day. However species that live in high humidity like redfoots don't dry off as quick.
Juveniles are different, they hide away for fear of predators in mini humid climates IMO.
Also if a sully is sat on an incline of a hill in the wild for 4,5,6 hrs, and the sun is only beating down on 1 half of its carapace, is this sully forcing an uneven growth on itself for this period? I don't know. Just another mad thought I've had.

Your talking about the sun though. The same isn't going to dehydrate like unfiltered lamps will. 4 to 6 hours under the sun is not equivalent to 4 to 6 hours under artificial lamps. The amount of water taken from 4 to 6 hours under unfiltered lamps is going to be unbelievably extremely high compared to 4 to 6 hours under the sun. The sun is water filtered. So the ir-a doesn't absorb water in that part of the spectrum.

Now... If you said that about an indoor grown tortoise.. Where half their body is subjected to dehydrating lamps for 4 to 6 hours whereas the other half is 'shaded', , just like the photo above I suspect we would see half the shell begin to proliferate heavily vs the unshaded half over a decent time exposed to lamps. Then technically it would be forcing uneven growth on itself. But usually the Basking zone is just big enough to cover the tortoise in its entirety. But just like this story I told above.. And this photo right here..

Shows direct correlation to Basking lamps creating deformed Keratin and bone. And it being a sole driver of pyramiding and Keratin dehydration and deformation. .

 

[glitch4200]

It's sad to see that and that someone won't take on advice. People like this can't be helped. . So you are saying that the 2 scutes that have grown deformed are due to a heat spot in this area.

Yes. Direct correlation. Dehydrated alpha Keratin from localized hot spots like the pictures above, create so much stress on alpha Keratin it has no choice but to proliferate SEVERLY. This constant need for warmth but the horrible location of the bulb has the tortoise stuck between a rock and a hard place. It needs the heat to survive but it's being burned really bad. So in order to stop the assault it creates it's only natural biological defensive barrier. Beta keratin proliferation.. This proliferation allows more distribution of heat (more surface area), and also guards the alpha Kerstin matrix which is the precursor of beta keratin. So if you destabilize the alpha Keratin matrix enough like the said picture the beta keratin can not be formed correctly either and all that mechanic stress is put into the bone underneathe and like shown above, the the shell has proliferated so much that it's now bending away from the light itself becuae it's getting so pyramided. so now you have 2 biological systems failing epically. All becuase of unfiltered lamps and as shown above hard headed individuals who can not clearly see the damage being done to their tortoise.

 

[Anyfoot]

Yes I agree the sun light is filtered through the air atmosphere. So the closer the heat to the tort the less filtered it is. We put bulbs close to torts to save money. This is why I asked if you could do an experiment with lots of smaller watt bulbs instead of 1 higher watt. I understand the expensive costs to do this. Does the owner of that tort have photos of the tort when a juvenile. I'm guessing you burnt your bridges with the owner. Lol.

 

[glitch4200]

Yes I agree the sun light is filtered through the air atmosphere. So the closer the heat to the tort the less filtered it is. We put bulbs close to torts to save money. This is why I asked if you could do an experiment with lots of smaller watt bulbs instead of 1 higher watt. I understand the expensive costs to do this. Does the owner of that tort have photos of the tort when a juvenile. I'm guessing you burnt your bridges with the owner. Lol.

No not less filtered. It's not filtered at all. No matter the distance or humidity. You would need almost a mile of water vapor or a sealed water filtered disk * * to filter the lamp.

Also I have tried to come up with a way to make a lamp that has multiple bulbs but have run into many issues.

#1 being wiring. You need to parallel wire all the sockets together. Then fuse the wall wire so you don't blow all the lamps. (or else you need like 5 sockets available)

#2. I can't find sockets that I can wire together at the wattage I need.

#3. I can't find domes that would hold multiple sockets at once.

#4. I would need to fabricate from scratch a whole new lighting system and wire set up.

#5. My buddy and I have already filled out paper work for a provisional patent in the United States and Canada on our water filtered infrared adapter invention. So the need to fabricate and test a new lamp is not needed and will be a waste of my time.. We are in the prototyping phase and testing phase currently of the infrared filtration adapter with promising results.

And lastly. No. She blocked me and deleted the thread immediately after I said those things. I was of course in the wrong according to her though.

 

[Anyfoot]

No not less filtered. It's not filtered at all. No matter the distance or humidity. You would need almost a mile of water vapor or a sealed water filtered disk * * to filter the lamp.

Also I have tried to come up with a way to make a lamp that has multiple bulbs but have run into many issues.

#1 being wiring. You need to parallel wire all the sockets together. Then fuse the wall wire so you don't blow all the lamps. (or else you need like 5 sockets available)

#2. I can't find sockets that I can wire together at the wattage I need.

#3. I can't find domes that would hold multiple sockets at once.

#4. I would need to fabricate from scratch a whole new lighting system and wire set up.

#5. My buddy and I have already filled out paper work for a provisional patent in the United States and Canada on our water filtered infrared adapter invention. So the need to fabricate and test a new lamp is not needed and will be a waste of my time.. We are in the prototyping phase and testing phase currently of the infrared filtration adapter with promising results.

And lastly. No. She blocked me and deleted the thread immediately after I said those things. I was of course in the wrong according to her though.

That sounds more like it. You are in the early stages of developing a universal adapter to filter the light. Am I understanding that correctly?

 

[Tom]

If the tortoise is getting very frequent soaks and sprays then humidity in the enclosure it's self wouldn't be necessary. But that is a lot of high maintenance that some of us don't have time to do.

I disagree completely. As Mike just stated 80% ambient humidity in a closed chamber produces VERY different growth results than daily soaks and frequent shell spraying in a drier enclosure. THIS experiment, I have done repeatedly.

 

[Tom]

I am not against temp gradients... I just feel 90% of people think one heat bulb and UVb lamp is effective at creating a gradient temp properly. I see it all the time on facebook groups in their habitat pics. The most widely used set up is the 2x bulb set up. 1x Mercury vapor bulb on one side of the habitat. And 1x uvb bulb close by to the heat lamp. Then they think the rest of the habitat must be the "cool" zone. So its left pretty dark and cool.

That is arrogant and wrong. So pretty much your limiting the tortoise to the basking lamp and uvb lamp for heating and seeing light and keeping the rest of the habitat cool and dark. This right here is the common set up around the world when housing tortoises indoors. I have probably told over 300 people to add a second heating element and spread out the Uvb light so the tortoise can roam the table and be warm and see all over.Instead of being confined to a corner of the habitat. My tortoises like to be warm. And through observation when i keep my ambient temps at 85 f. He will fall asleep anywhere. Whereas, before when only giving him a single basking lamp (very early on in his care before i knew better). He was confined to the basking lamp section almost all day.

I feel the whole gradient guideline is being done incorrectly all over. People are offering incorrect temp gradients. I see it all the time on facebook groups. And i have a picture to show you all that shows exactly what i am talking about.

The one bulb set up can and does work for most species in many situations. The bulb simulates a sunny patch in and otherwise "shaded" area. In the wild if the tortoise wants to warm up, it moves to a brightly lit sunny area. Once its temperature is where it needs to be, it retreats to a darker area in the shade. Having said that, adjustments will always have to be made depending on observation of the parameters in a set up like that, and observation of the tortoises kept in set ups like that.

The problem you are rightfully observing is when people ignore obvious signs that their temperatures are not adequate, or when they make stupid assumptions like the person with the star tortoise in your pic. "He will move if he gets too hot...", when he's 2" away from a desiccating bulb. This is one of those cases where things have to be customized not only for a species, but for each individual within a species. Any tortoise of any species that sits under its basking bulb for most of a day is telling the keeper that the ambient temps are TOO LOW. Likewise a tortoise that is always on the cool side is telling the keeper that either ambient is too high, or that possibly a coil bulb is burning their eyes over on the other side of the enclosure. The star tortoise in the pic should have a closed chamber with ambient temps in the 80s or even low 90s and that basking bulb needs to be significantly higher. That same set up might suit a russian perfectly fine though, if ambient temps are in the 70's and if basking temps at tortoise carapace height are 95ish. I suspect in the example depicted that basking temps are MUCH too high with that lamp placed so low. Adding a CHE over the middle of the enclosure, or adding another basking bulb at the correct-for-thespecies-and-individual-enclosure height, will usually solve this problem. That is why in so many of my threads I emphasize know "your four temperatures" and "making adjustments where needed", and "observing your tortoises behavior".

You are absolutely correct in your assertion that simply throwing an MVB up over one end of the enclosure and calling it "good" is NOT necessarily going to be adequate. In many cases it will NOT be adequate in any normal household because ambients in an open table will be too low for most species, but especially tropical species like stars, sulcatas and leopards. The low ambient will cause excessive basking and carapace desiccation, which is just one reason why I'm always hounding people to use a CLOSED CHAMBER. Closed chamber make it easy to keep ambient temps higher, and they prevent the need for excessive basking under hot desiccating bulbs.

I, however, think you are wrong in your assertion that this single bulb set up can never work and is always wrong. Many times it works very well in the right house with the right species. It can work very well for most Testudo species that need a lower ambient.

It is disturbing to me that the owner of the star tortoise in that picture believes she has a "Happy Boy"... And this demonstrates poignantly that many people are not very adept at observing and understanding tortoise behavior.

 

[Alaskamike]

The above example of the Star Tortoise and the response of both the individual and Glitch being banned for questioning the care is why I don't participate in those facebook groups, or even on any other tortoise forum. I glad you do Glitch, I just do not have the patience for it. Its reminds me of the talk I had with a manager at a pet store about 10 sulcata babies, in a small aquarium, under a coil bulb, on rabbit pellets, no water dish eating lettuce (which is all they fed them - because "It hydrates them, they don't need water")
- I mentioned the small space for them, the dryness of the pellets, and no place to get away from the bulb, how cold the air conditioned store was at night, He argued it was only "temporary " since he sold them fast . I told him the buyers might think this was a good way to raise them by example
- I asked him if he knew about the closed chamber method to reduce shell pryamiding and damage, he said they are desert species, in no way could he recommend high humidity as it would make them sick. I thought what @Tom might say to him - but thought better of it LOL
- I mentioned the Tortoise Forum, that it might be very helpful to new owners to have a place to learn the latest "best care" methods of husbandry and he said he was not going to advertise my forum for me ( my forum?) . I tried to explain it is a open forum, and not a for profit thing.... he didn't care.

I gave up.

We certainly have some debate here and a healthy exchange of challenges and ideas back and forth. I do like that obviously, as I participate. But rarely is it just ignorant exchanges with no room for reason.

The explanation of hydration - internal and external related to the bio-chemistry of keratin growth and proliferation is really good stuff to ponder. The more I read and follow this thread , the more I believe I'm learning. You don't have to understand exactly what is happening and why to raise healthy babies, just follow best care practices and it will work - but I like to know the WHY also. Just the way my mind works I guess.
Don't give up Glitch....
...some tortoise, somewhere, would thank you if they could

 

[Kelly71]

Hi All,
Well I have to say I put the oil on Sunny after his bath today. I have to admit I was a little
afraid to do it? lol All I had to do was put my finger on the very top and take my finger
away and it was oil? Now keep in mind Sunny's shell in my looks was not to bad, it did look
maybe a little dry but I have seen worse. He did NOT like me putting it on and tried to run
away? I was I thought very soft. I put on little bc I did not know what it was going to do? I
saw right away his shell looked better and here I thought it was pretty good? lol Now keep in
mind I did use very little but enough that I saw a difference. I also did not leave it on very
long before rubbing it off with a very soft micro fiber cotton cloth. It did seem to soak in
pretty fast I thought. I thought also his little head looked dry so with even less on my finger
just rubbed on top of his very head where his coloured scales are? That I saw also a big
difference. And for some funny reason he likes his head rubbed? lol Sorry I will post pics
later of before and after, my husband went to bed and has them on his phone? I just could
not wait to post what I saw? lol One other thing, Sunny has those funny swirls and bubble
marks on the middle of this scales on his shell, I wonder....will the oil make those go away
or get better? I dont care about them but know one seems to really know for sure what those
are? It will be interesting to see what happens with those and the oil? Thanks And I will have
those pics tomorrow for sure, you guys can tell me if you see a diff.?
P.S. On a side note I cried when I saw the pics of that tort pics above
near that light? Who on earth would think that is ok? And I see the person
posted " One Happy Boy" or something like that? What the hell? :O(

 

[Alaskamike]

Hi All,
Well I have to say I put the oil on Sunny after his bath today. I have to admit I was a little
afraid to do it? lol All I had to do was put my finger on the very top and take my finger
away and it was oil? Now keep in mind Sunny's shell in my looks was not to bad, it did look
maybe a little dry but I have seen worse. He did NOT like me putting it on and tried to run
away? I was I thought very soft. I put on little bc I did not know what it was going to do? I
saw right away his shell looked better and here I thought it was pretty good? lol Now keep in
mind I did use very little but enough that I saw a difference. I also did not leave it on very
long before rubbing it off with a very soft micro fiber cotton cloth. It did seem to soak in
pretty fast I thought. I thought also his little head looked dry so with even less on my finger
just rubbed on top of his very head where his coloured scales are? That I saw also a big
difference. And for some funny reason he likes his head rubbed? lol Sorry I will post pics
later of before and after, my husband went to bed and has them on his phone? I just could
not wait to post what I saw? lol One other thing, Sunny has those funny swirls and bubble
marks on the middle of this scales on his shell, I wonder....will the oil make those go away
or get better? I dont care about them but know one seems to really know for sure what those
are? It will be interesting to see what happens with those and the oil? Thanks And I will have
those pics tomorrow for sure, you guys can tell me if you see a diff.?
P.S. On a side note I cried when I saw the pics of that tort pics above
near that light? Who on earth would think that is ok? And I see the person
posted " One Happy Boy" or something like that? What the hell? :O(

Kelly,
When I use the oil I just wipe it on with two fingers and make sure it gets well distributed into all the ridges and lines of my sulcatas caprice. I don't worry about the amount too much. I cover the plastron also, as it is wet in his enclosure much of the time. In the rainy season here now, and in his cave it is often wet, so I hope the EVCO will protect his plastron from mold , fungus, etc. Once he is well covered I just wipe him gently with a cloth and call it good. I don't try to wipe it off. Becasue mie are raised outdoors in high humidity, I do it about once a week. If I was rasig mie idoors, underlamps, I woud be doing it 3x/week.

The positive effects of it are not seen in an immediate change - although it does make his shell look shiny, I don't care about that, it cannot be seen how it helps until you've done it over time.

I would be interested to see photos of your tort now, as well as a description of your set up. If you decide to do this on a regular basis it will take months to see if it makes a difference the way the shell grows. From what I know about the EVCO there is nothing in it that can harm your tortoise, so nothing to be afraid of. If I thought for a minute that EVCO could hurt my babies, I would not use it.at all.

 

[Kelly71]

Hi All,
So here are the pics of before and after? lol And to be honest I cant really tell
in the pics? Dont forget I just bathed him? I will do him better next time time. lol
His shell really I dont find to dry but it did look pretty good after? lol And on a side
note when I looked at the pics I did also notice that those swirly / bubble lines
in the middle of his scales look like they have started to go away? Here is a pic
that I took a couple of weeks ago so you can see the diff.? lol Thanks