Responding to posts or giving advice...

[CharlieM]

There are so many great passionate members here who are more than willing to jump in and offer advice. One of the unfortunate consequences of their replies is deceifering the information. While many people have lots of hands on experience with certain species others have little to none but still offer their opinion. Others just keep repeating information with zero experience. Perhaps this could be looked into. One thought that I observed while watching an educational video was to claim your experience. As an example every comment started with:

1) I've been told by others...
2) I've read...
3) I've experienced...

Obviously number three is the the reply that should be the most interesting.

Any thoughts???

 

[Yvonne G]

"Parroting", in my opinion, is not bad, providing the info being parroted is current info. Quite a lot of the advice I give is from something I've "been told by others," but an awful lot of it is from my own experience.

I like to say, "In my opinion.." letting people know this is how I do it and not it's necessarily set in stone.

 

[dmmj]

a small amount of the information I give is I've been told most of it is from 30 years plus of turtle and tortoise experience

 

[Tom]

You make a good point. All of us had to learn this stuff somewhere. Much of what I know I have read or been told by others. Of course, some of it is from personal experience too.

Yvonne, touched on my solution to this issue. Its all about the preface:

"I have no experience with species x, but in general you can increase humidity in this way…"

Or, " I read in Vetter's book on Sulcatas and Leopards that x, y, z…"


I don't mind new people offering help, as long as they preface it honestly and disclose the source of their helpful info. If the person asking for help sees "I saw Yvonne reply with xyz in another post…" that would carry more weight with me than "I read it on the internet…" or "I did a lot of research…"

 

[Big Charlie]

I try to only report from my own experiences. "In my opinion" is a good preface. I rarely give much advice on this forum since I defer to those with much more experience than me. I am one of those who mostly comes here for help rather than to offer help.

I do have some experience in dealing with well-wishers offering unfounded opinions as I serve as an expert on another, unrelated forum. On that forum, where the non-expert opinions could be damaging, they are reported to the moderators. On this forum, there are plenty of people who know what they are talking about and they generally respond quickly enough to questions that I don't worry about getting erroneous advice.

People have a natural desire to help which might lead them to give advice that isn't based on fact. Most people who are familiar with forums check the post count of the poster to determine their trustworthiness.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

I think something I have decided that's helpful is the listing of kept or favorite species under our signature. I just changed mine. I usually try hard to only give advice on Yvonne's or my personal experience. What I know, most anyhow, I learned from her advice, experience and mistakes. Then an accident, and all the sudden I'm getting my own water turtles. I read tortoise books, and the 'Net and disagree with a lot of what I read. I do things the way that work for me and my animals. So I specifically say "this is what I do".
My hands on experience is with several species, but not, for instance, red/yellow foots, so I simply don't give advice on redfoots. I think that's how it should be done. How to police it, I don't know.

 

[mike taylor]

I have reds and sulcatas . I've gotten most of my sulcata information from Tom . But some I have did my own research . My reds there's good information on the web . As far as the sulcata goes this place gives the best information . If you watch what's normal with your tortoises you will know something is going south . With my reds I've seen they don't like it to hot or bright . They love shady humid and warm . That's why my enclosure is half full sun and half covered . My sulcatas love to walk and graze . That's why I have a large enclosure with a lot of grass and weeds . In winter I feed mazuri and weeds . So what I'm saying there's no one stop shop to find the information .You have to take information from here and there and use your own to find what works best for your tortoises . Tom live in California I live in Texas its humid here not so much in California . So I don't need to worry about humidity like he does . Plus you look at how long the person has been keeping tortoises and their photos . This is someone who knows his stuff . I'd say if you are keeping a sulcata I'll always send you Tom's way . He will get you close but you will have to use your own mind and change and tweak stuff . I wish there was a book that gives you everything you need but there's not . So keep learning and watching your tortoises .

 

[GeorgeUK]

Having kept Snakes my entire life, I have seen how fast and how often husbandry advise changes. I have recent experience being on the wrong side of outdated information...
I recently got a Leopard Tortoise and unfortunately, and despite research, I set up my enclosure completely wrong.
Outdated information is still thrown around and distributed via care sheets, pet store attendants and websites that are unfortunately easily accessible to the Layman. It may take a long time before general husbandry rules are adhered to, or even known by new keepers (and old stubborn ones!)
I remain cautious when handing out even the most basic advise as things change fast in the reptile world. We all parrot from time to time...
Thankfully here, I have been given great advise that seems to be widely accepted by experienced keepers.

 

[mike taylor]

I agree this is one of the good places with great information . The thing I hate is when you tell someone something they don't fix the problems . Then a week later they are Bach here with something wrong and don't listen again.

 

[teresaf]

I agree this is one of the good places with great information . The thing I hate is when you tell someone something they don't fix the problems . Then a week later they are Bach here with something wrong and don't listen again.

You can't fix stupid. Lol
All you can do is reply, rinse and repeat... Hopefully some sinks in.

 

[teresaf]

Luckily, on this forum, anyone can pm anyone. If bad advice is given there are plenty of folks that will have no problem correcting it quickly. Nicely of course. Usually every question gets more than just one person to answer sooo...
Luckily I ONLY stalk this forum and no others so any advice I give is what I 'parrot' from here. I read a bunch... PLEASE understand that just because a person has never owned a sulcata doesn't mean they know less than a sulcata owner. Those of us that love tortoises don't always have room for the bigger ones but that doesn't stop us from reading everything here about them in the hopes of someday having a big enough home for one.

 

[Grandpa Turtle 144]

There are so many great passionate members here who are more than willing to jump in and offer advice. One of the unfortunate consequences of their replies is deceifering the information. While many people have lots of hands on experience with certain species others have little to none but still offer their opinion. Others just keep repeating information with zero experience. Perhaps this could be looked into. One thought that I observed while watching an educational video was to claim your experience. As an example every comment started with:

1) I've been told by others...
2) I've read...
3) I've experienced...

Obviously number three is the the reply that should be the most interesting.

Any thoughts???

I understand where your coming from and that's why I check out the profiles and I to wish we would put more info. In the profiles like torts that we have . Time we've had them . But people would just leave it blank ! So this is the best place we have !

 

[CharlieM]

I try to only report from my own experiences. "In my opinion" is a good preface. I rarely give much advice on this forum since I defer to those with much more experience than me. I am one of those who mostly comes here for help rather than to offer help.

I do have some experience in dealing with well-wishers offering unfounded opinions as I serve as an expert on another, unrelated forum. On that forum, where the non-expert opinions could be damaging, they are reported to the moderators. On this forum, there are plenty of people who know what they are talking about and they generally respond quickly enough to questions that I don't worry about getting erroneous advice.

People have a natural desire to help which might lead them to give advice that isn't based on fact. Most people who are familiar with forums check the post count of the poster to determine their trustworthiness.

I will respectfully disagree with "in my opinion" as a good preface. That is what we already see to much.

 

[Tom]

I will respectfully disagree with "in my opinion" as a good preface. That is what we already see to much.

This is a tough call. When I make an assertion with certainty its because I am 100% sure of what I'm saying based on experience and first hand, hard earned knowledge. For a new person whose has been reading all sorts of info on the internet, the delivery method of good advice can be just as important as the good advice. Sometimes "in my opinion…" or "I do it this way…" is a less jagged pill to swallow than simple cold hard facts that contradict what they have read else where. It really depends on the receiver. The majority of people have thanked me for a no non-sense approach, or at least said they understand it. A few have been offended by simple fact sharing and left in a huff. That is not good for their tortoise, so I try to prevent these abrupt departures by delivering the message in a more diplomatic way when possible. "In my opinion…" is sometimes received better than "Just do this, cause I said so…"

Please share your thoughts.

 

[Pearly]

We all have something to learn and contribute, even the "newest nubs" such as myself. This is what makes TFO such great place. We just need to use common sense taking any advise. Heck, I at times even double check the professional advise (vets) when something "just doesn't sit right with me". Coming to TFO for advise is the 1st right step, doing your homework is 2nd, doing both gives us best chances of making right informed choices. Every post here has potential of helping another keeper in some way. TFO is a greatest place to learn!

 

[Careym13]

This topic has come up before. I did before and I still think that if you are going to post a statement, photo, opinion, or whatever in a public forum that you are opening yourself up for a variety of responses. I feel like trying to regulate the way people respond to posts (other than by the forum rules already set in place), we would just be taking away from what has made TFO so special...a group of passionate people not afraid to share their opinions. Everyone just needs to be themselves, go with the flow, and not take things so personally.

 

[CharlieM]

This topic has come up before. I did before and I still think that if you are going to post a statement, photo, opinion, or whatever in a public forum that you are opening yourself up for a variety of responses. I feel like trying to regulate the way people respond to posts (other than by the forum rules already set in place), we would just be taking away from what has made TFO so special...a group of passionate people not afraid to share their opinions. Everyone just needs to be themselves, go with the flow, and not take things so personally.

I'm certainly not one to want to regulate. That's not what this is about.
Just discussing how people choose to deliver information.
"In my opinion" is far from concrete and very grey.

 

[leigti]

I will respectfully disagree with "in my opinion" as a good preface. That is what we already see to much.

I understand what you're saying. I have found that saying "in my opinion" at times helps to sort of soften the approach some. Which is hard for me to do because I tend to say it like it is or how I see it and that offends people sometimes.
It seems like so many people are looking for the official correct information but then question it when it is given to them, and question the qualifications of the person giving it.
And when it comes right down to it, everything is just an opinion. Even if their scientific proof people still form an opinion about it, and decide whether they want to believe it or follow it.

 

[cdmay]

You make a good point. All of us had to learn this stuff somewhere. Much of what I know I have read or been told by others. Of course, some of it is from personal experience too.

Yvonne, touched on my solution to this issue. Its all about the preface:

"I have no experience with species x, but in general you can increase humidity in this way…"

Or, " I read in Vetter's book on Sulcatas and Leopards that x, y, z…"


I don't mind new people offering help, as long as they preface it honestly and disclose the source of their helpful info. If the person asking for help sees "I saw Yvonne reply with xyz in another post…" that would carry more weight with me than "I read it on the internet…" or "I did a lot of research…"

Agree. Citing a reputable source, or published information is always a good thing. Reporting on your own, actual hands on experience is also invaluable.
But parroting some generalization or internet bilge, not so great.

 

[leigti]

I don't think there is anything wrong with parroting correct information even if you do not have hands on experience with that particular type of tortoise. How many times a day or a week is the same exact question asked? And therefore how many times is the exact same information given out? I'm talking basic care questions here. Sometimes number matter how often a person is referred to or actually given the link to a thread they somehow don't bother to read it. And if it wasn't for people who are patient enough to repeatedly answer these questions, even if they are just repeating information they have gotten here, then the information would not get to these people.